Thread: Do you believe in aliens(extra terrestrials)?

Originally Posted by maxorator

Like Elysia said, time is superior, it doesn't belong to dimensions.

Define belong, because cpjust is basically saying the same thing I did.

Originally Posted by whiteflags

But you can define distances in terms of time (rate of speed times time), so it doesn't make sense to me that time is wholly different from space. It might not be tangible or real, but time being separate from space makes it seem purposeless. In other words, when something takes place is as important as where it takes place because it's plausible that the space was created before or would only exist during the event.

I hope that puts an end to the argument, at least in this thread.

Now, you might not be interested in that aspect of time when you're not travelling but I don't think it can be ignored.

Originally Posted by maxorator

You can move an object in space, but you can't move it in time (back and forth). Time is not actually a scale - it's just one point.

But that's intellectually dishonest. There are things that you cannot personally move in space but that doesn't change the fact that it is in space and doesn't change the fact that space can be described as a plane. I think there is a distinction to be made in point in time and period of time. Particularly, time is only existing during the period. I made this point earlier when I said time serves no purpose before the Big Bang. Some people seem to think that point in time observation, information, or existence makes time "immortal" or "superior" but it just doesn't wash with me.

except it looks like we will have a big rip

Considering this is a thread about aliens, I am surprised Roswell and "Area 51" hasn't been mentioned.

Time is more interesting and relevant than aliens?

Originally Posted by anon

Time is more interesting and relevant than aliens?

Time is an aspect of atomic physics, which is a possibility of three dimensionality, which is the only possible quality of substance. Matter is atomized substance. So when people say "time is a product of the big bang" they really mean it is a complication involving our reality, since as biological beings we are "downstream" from nuclear forces. Presuming by aliens we mean a form of intelligent biological life, they would have to experience the universe on our level.

"Space" (an apparent absence of substance) is a complication similar to time, but it's relationship to the logical root (three dimensionality) is different conceptually, as a lot of the discussion about distance and events leads toward.

You guys seriously need to stop thinking only in 4 dimensions.

Space might seem empty to us because of our limited perception of the universe (we only have 5 senses), but as was pointed out before, space and all matter is composed out of Quantum Strings, so to be truly empty you'd need to look outside of our universe.

Time is just another form of distance, except it's the distance between two of the exact same points in space, just at different, well, times for lack of a better word. So without space, there's no time. Therefore talking about time before the big bang is meaningless.

What we see with our eyes isn't 4 dimensions; it's 3 dimensions, then 3 dimensions again a split second later... just like a movie is a series of still frames that look like they move when you play them fast enough. If you try to imagine 4 dimensions, (taking the Earth orbiting the sun for example) you wouldn't see the Earth moving around the sun, you would see the Earth at every point around the Sun simultaneously. It would look kind of like a tube around the sun, because you're now seeing multiple points in time simultaneously.

Now if you really want to make your brain explode, try imagining 5 dimensions. Personally I like to think of the 5th dimension as alternate realities. So now you're seeing the 4 dimensions you imagined earlier + the same thing, in the same space, in alternate timelines...

That's as far as my brain can go. I have no idea what 6 dimensions would look like, but I'm pretty sure I'd go insane if I ever managed to figure it out.

Originally Posted by cpjust

Space might seem empty to us because of our limited perception of the universe (we only have 5 senses)

I don't know about you, but most humans have more than 5 senses.

visual (sight)
auditory (hearing)
taste
tactile (touch)
olphactory (smell)
heat/cold
proprioception (body position)
pain

What we see with our eyes isnt 3 dimensions, its 2 dimensions from 2 perspectives, which our visual cortex assembles into a 3 dimensional image internally. We dont see one image then a split second later see another image, our eyes dont work like cameras, the image data is continuously flowing into the visual cortex and being decoded.

Originally Posted by cpjust

You guys seriously need to stop thinking only in 4 dimensions.

Space might seem empty to us because of our limited perception of the universe (we only have 5 senses), but as was pointed out before, space and all matter is composed out of Quantum Strings, so to be truly empty you'd need to look outside of our universe.

Time is just another form of distance, except it's the distance between two of the exact same points in space, just at different, well, times for lack of a better word. So without space, there's no time. Therefore talking about time before the big bang is meaningless.

Like Elysia said, time is superior, it doesn't belong to dimensions. Time cannot be manipulated. Things in dimensions can be. That's the huge difference. You can move an object in space, but you can't move it in time (back and forth). Time is not actually a scale - it's just one point. The reason why people think that time could be a dimension is because we have memory and we often think about the future. Time itself is just the current point - now.

Other universes? Sure, they can exist, but just far far away from our universe in space, making it a part of the same 3-dimensional system.

Ever wondered why it's called the string theory? I'll give you a hint - it's a theory that some scientists believe to be true. We just need to wait about 10-20 to get a new theory. Maybe a better one, that actually answers more questions than it raises.

dimensions != alternate realites

Time serves no purpose before the Big Bang?
Who are we to say what actually happens out there? Our view is so extremely limited, we hardly know the laws, if they can be called thus, of physics at all.
I am also skeptical of how the so called big bang could be made if time served no purpose before it. How could the events then lead to a big bang?
And if time existed, but served no purpose, I would still say it does since the events that caused the big bang to happen in the first place is significant.
Not to reiterate the point that there probably have been an infinite amount of big bangs and big scale events before the big bang as we know it.

The plane theory has a valid point, and I can see it as a good one, perhaps with a few lose ends, but I certainly don't think that time before some period has no meaning. Time must be immortal and therefore always have a meaning. It is the turning wheel of the existence as we know it.
(Of course, we have our own perception of time, as well, but that should not be related to the actual Time that is the Wheel of Existence, as I'd call it.)

Time serves no purpose before the Big Bang?
Who are we to say what actually happens out there?

I am not speculating what happened out there but rather trying to assert that the Big Bang starting is point in time information, the specifics of the occurrence is irrelevant. Suppose you know the Universe started last Tuesday. That information would not change even in a supposed state of NULL, and it might help you grasp the concept if you used a less metaphysical example (when did you last eat breakfast?). Since we have point in time information, it is not necessary or even reasonable to assume that time is always effective, especially if you're going to talk about before genesis.

And the real mind........ is that point in time information can be wrong if the event is only speculated to occur.