> If it checks a private database and uses non-trivial key generation, then it is effectively impossible to crack.
No, not really. I don't think you read my example on Steam. Saying 'impossible' is rather silly, almost everything is possible.
> If it checks a private database and uses non-trivial key generation, then it is effectively impossible to crack.
No, not really. I don't think you read my example on Steam. Saying 'impossible' is rather silly, almost everything is possible.
The key being on a private server means nothing. The generation algorithm being non-trivial means nothing either. The server is never cracked. What happens is that the key generation algorithm is simply inferred.
This issue is simple - and its the second time this week I hear this ridiculous advertisement of this or that security measure being perfect; There is no current full-proof solution to copy protection. Probably never will until we change our computers open architecture.
Originally Posted by brewbuck:
Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
For single player games, it's true. But for online games cd keys are a full-proof solution since even brute-force won't give you any results.Originally Posted by Mario F.
"The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore
> But for online games cd keys are a full-proof solution since even brute-force won't give you any results.
No! You're as bad as Ubisoft.
So you are saying if I generate a 128 bit cd key, and the verification stage is that the public key has to decode it to have repeated digits such as FF88EE22 and I keep the database on a private system then you can trivially reverse my encryption process using the public key, wow if thats true mario you need to be working for the NSA, not posting here. Since there are only 2^64 correct keycodes, adn 2^128 possible keycoides, even knowing the verification algorithm does nothing, since you will still only find one potentially valid keycode for every 2^64 codes you try. Good luck with that any time before the game becomes so outdated that its considered a historical artifact.
UBI uses some other copy protection now, but some of their starforce games are still on shelves, which means thye are still at fult for continuing problems. Unless they recall the starforce infected games (and yes I mean infected) they havent 'stopped using it' just stopped printing new media with it. I believe they use SecuROM now, which is almost as bad sicne it doesnt work on about 30% of drives out there.
Apparetly you didnt read the part about bad implimentations being poor examples et al. And I didnt say impossible, I said 'effectively impossible'. That is to say it wouldcost more to crack one key than to just buy the game.
Last edited by abachler; 03-17-2008 at 02:08 PM.
Well thanks for the vote of confidence but I'm also a gamer and one that is getting extremely annoyed at all the completely flawed tactics being used to detect cheaters and thieves. The cheaters and thieves run rampant while legit players have nothing but trouble. Companies won't do anything about it and yet keep using things like PB to cheat-proof their games when every gamer who is anything in the gaming world knows that PB is a huge flaming pile of poo. It boots the wrong people all the time, throws up errors in the console about not being able to read this PB packet or that PB packet, and in general just sucks.Hardly something that should come from someone that is supposed to be of your calibre.
I believe we do have a right to 'whine' about this topic. I have purchased all of my games and firmly believe that a company has a right to its just due and compensation. However I will cease to give said compensation when they start tampering with my system. It took me an hour or so of research just to remove the crappy Starforce or whatever it is. It uses some unsupported characters in the folder names which causes Windows to vomit when you try to delete them. It also uses NULL reg keys in your registry so you can't remove them without a tool from sysinternals. These are NOT in any way shape or form valid ethical business practices and do not belong in any game or professional product. These are folks that are fighting hacking by becoming hackers and they are hacking my machine.
I'm beyond tired of it and since I own around 290 games now I'd say I have a fairly good grasp of most of what is being used now for copy protection. My point is it is a waste of money b/c the 'bad guys' are already playing the game even with the copy protection schemes being used. Copy protection just makes it harder for legit players and legit buyers to run the game b/c they are the only ones who play by the rules. If you don't play by the rules...you usually aren't affected by them either. I will always buy my software, CD's, movies, etc. I've been ridiculed for doing so but it's just how I am. Buy it or don't buy it - anything else is stealing. But tampering with my system w/o my permission is absolutely unacceptable regardless of the intent.
Last edited by VirtualAce; 03-13-2008 at 05:35 PM.
You're mixing the issues of copy protection and cheating.
Starforce or whatever that copy protection software is called is a piece of garbage from what I hear. I wouldn't want software to hide stuff on my machine and all that other stuff.
PB on the other hand is not Starforce, and they do not employ those kind of tactics as described for Starforce, to my knowledge. PB's problem is trying to detect cheats the wrong way.
As far as PB's technical issues are concerned, yeah there are issues. I don't deny that, but many issues can be resolved. For some of the people saying they've been kicked "for no reason", they should consider how that comes across. It gives no information on the problem, and I would wonder if anybody complaining here has even bothered to contact EB and get any technical assistance.
Altogether, as programmers, it would be nice if we could make a difference. Frankly, I think most games coming out these days suck terribly bad. I'm rather depressed with the state of online gaming. Cheating is only getting worse, and many of the anticheat groups are becoming political. Games aren't even finished before they come out, and before the players can even digest one game, the next sequel is out. What's the difference? Who cares? Another sequel will be out soon thereafter and the last one will be forgotten.
I like some aspects of EA, and I think they have some things done from the right angles. I've heard Blizzard is a good company, but I can't stand their games, so I can't comment on them. The one game company I really do not like is UBI.
Now with regard to UBI and Starforce, I think this is rather interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft#Controversies
Almost 2 years ago they said they would stop using Starforce. So why is this topic still getting notice? Are they still using Starforce, or do people just enjoy threatening to boycott UBI for a two year old screwup?On April 14, 2006, Ubisoft confirmed that they would stop using StarForce on their games citing complaints from customers.[8]
Edit: Or are they using some other equivalent protection program currently?
Last edited by MacGyver; 03-13-2008 at 10:15 PM.
They may not be using starforce anymore, but that doesn't mean they're not using something else. Point is the trust in Ubisoft is lost, and they don't deserve it back... ever. You can't forgive them, they knew what they were doing, and planned to get away with it -- Starforce did not ship with Ubisoft games by mistake.
Abachler,
Get a piece of paper, now start drawing...
Where is the key generated?
What is the workflow behind the key generation process?
How does the software you have at your home validates against the generated key?
Grab your sketch. And pinpoint the weaknesses. Don't answer me; I'm tired of your babbling. Just do this exercise because I'm not going to do it for you. Happy enlightenment.
Originally Posted by brewbuck:
Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
Back off noob. Follow your own advice, until then stay under the rock.
On second thought Ill just add you to my ignore list. I don't know what bug got up your ass (although I suspect what it was), but that is irelevant. You disagree that CD-KEY protection can be made secure enough to thwart hacking, yet you give no evidence that my algorithm is flawed adn instead go off half cocked claiming that I need to prove my own arguement wrong because you cant be bothered.
Do Your Own Homework.
Last edited by abachler; 03-18-2008 at 08:43 AM.
Hehe. Thank you for the laugh. Over and out.
Originally Posted by brewbuck:
Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
Brown Paper, white paper, stickin' together with the tape, the tape of looove....THE STICKY STUUUF OOOH YEAAHEAHH!!
Love a console. Never again suffer choppy framerates or have to upgrade hardware to run games.
So true!
How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
...And for working with computers, you usually do not have to upgrade it to run software unless it's really old. But games are another story. But with consoles, no upgrading until the next console. And if you want those games, that is.
