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Vs c++

This is a discussion on Vs c++ within the Windows Programming forums, part of the Platform Specific Boards category; I need help to start VS C++/MFC , can u tell me any books or tutorials which starts from basic. ...

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    Vs c++

    I need help to start VS C++/MFC , can u tell me any books or tutorials which starts from basic.
    thanks

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    and the hat of wrongness Salem's Avatar
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    Did you read this sticky link at the top of the forum?
    Windows programming links

    By "basic", do you mean from not knowing C++ AT ALL, or from knowing a reasonable amount of C++, but not knowing anything about Windows AT ALL?
    If you dance barefoot on the broken glass of undefined behaviour, you've got to expect the occasional cut.
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    As far as i observed, it is better to start from standard win32 api,understand it basically, and then pass on to MFC. If you want a tutorial for win32, here's one:

    Forger's Win32 Tutorial

    (also mentioned on the link Salem gave)
    CommonTater likes this.

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Nonsense. Win32 should be avoided at all costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Nonsense. Win32 should be avoided at all costs.
    Ummm... Exscuse me? Did I hear that correctly?

    More than 90% of the world works on Windows and something like 75% of that is 32 bit versions; XP which still holds a more than 45% market share is nearly 100% 32 bit versions. XP-x86-sp3 remains the OS of choice for multimedia intensive applications such as home theatre systems.

    Win32 and Win32 API programming is going to be around for quite some time to come...
    Last edited by CommonTater; 03-12-2011 at 08:32 PM.

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    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I think Elysia meant pure Win32 code. It is not for the faint of heart and while it is not all that hard it does become quite ugly and cumbersome.

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    VirtualAce brings home the point. There is no reason to use a pure win32 approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Lets just give an answer to ednan's question and leave choosing from win32 or mfc to him.

    I've found another tutorial on win32:
    The Winapi (C Win32 API, No MFC) tutorial
    It's easier to start compared to the Forger's, but less detailed.

    And if you still want learn to learn MFC first, here's a tutorial on the topic:
    http://www.codersource.net/mfc.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    VirtualAce brings home the point. There is no reason to use a pure win32 approach.
    Oh my... I think we're going to disagree on that one.

    I work Windows API all the time. I very seldom use third party libraries, not even MFC, and while I will grant that it's a bit more work, I don't find it to be either ugly or cumbersome.

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    You're a C programmer. What do you expect?
    Salem likes this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    You're a C programmer. What do you expect?
    LOL... Lets see now... which of several ways should I take that?

    I'm working on C++, rather slowly because I have a few projects to finish before I climb right in but I don't see a compelling reason to work at any higher level than I already do...

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    But your roots are that of C. It's where your mindset is. It's how you look at the world. Everything that strays from that is biased in some way. Isn't it?
    I am the same, but I see everything from the C++ perspective.

    So the point is, since you are used to working with it and is a C programmer at heart, it would be nice for you. But in reality it's horrible, difficult and a menace. It requires years of experience to use properly, and even then, it's entirely possible to make numerous mistakes. Not a very friendly environment.
    Frameworks--especially C++ frameworks since C++ allows for more things than C--cut down on this. A lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    You know, the capabilities of c++ can have a bad effect on people. For example, Elysia, you can't understand win32, you find it too complex. Just because win32 was written in c, you are closed to new ideas about it. So i'm starting to think that c++ takes the ability of complex thinking from you.

    And there is no need to insult programmers working on a specific language. C++ might be better, but C alone does the job, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But your roots are that of C. It's where your mindset is. It's how you look at the world. Everything that strays from that is biased in some way. Isn't it?
    I am the same, but I see everything from the C++ perspective.

    So the point is, since you are used to working with it and is a C programmer at heart, it would be nice for you. But in reality it's horrible, difficult and a menace. It requires years of experience to use properly, and even then, it's entirely possible to make numerous mistakes. Not a very friendly environment.
    Frameworks--especially C++ frameworks since C++ allows for more things than C--cut down on this. A lot.
    I suppose there is a point there... although my roots are in Pascal, not C. If there was an up to date version of pascal with full winapi support and unicode support, I'd be there in a heartbeat... But there isn't, Borland killed it.

    But I fail to see how a "framework" consisting amost entirely of wrappers around WinApi functions does anything except make the end-user code bigger and slower.

    For you as a programmer they will make life easier but that's not we're after, is it? Shouldn't we be mostly concerned about handing the end user the best, most efficient code possible; no matter what language we write in?

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by new_in_c++ View Post
    You know, the capabilities of c++ can have a bad effect on people. For example, Elysia, you can't understand win32, you find it too complex. Just because win32 was written in c, you are closed to new ideas about it. So i'm starting to think that c++ takes the ability of complex thinking from you.

    And there is no need to insult programmers working on a specific language. C++ might be better, but C alone does the job, too.
    I am well versed in Win32. To a degree anyway. It's horrible. It's complex, and it's disgusting. Not only because it's pure C, but because of its complexity.
    This isn't about C or C++: if you use C, then go ahead, use the API. It might not be too horrendous. But to a C++ programmer, the API is horrendous. It will create bugs, and it will create substandard code for the language. And that is because C++ has tools which C does not, and the API can obviously not use those.
    A prime example are handles. They must be closed properly. So you must call CloseHadle or relevant functions. But what if you forget? C++ can take care of that for you. But you'd have to write wrappers for that yourself. Or use a library which handles it for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    I suppose there is a point there... but I fail to see how a "framework" consisting amost entirely of wrappers around WinApi functions does anything except make the end-user code bigger and slower.

    For you as a programmer they will make life easier but that's not we're after, is it? Shouldn't we be mostly concerned about handing the end user the best, most efficient code possible; no matter what language we write in?
    Yes, the end user is what matters. And how much longer development time and bugs will you create because you use the API instead of a framework that handles most of the work for you?

    The point of wrappers and frameworks is to reduce complexity. It will create an overhead, yes. But it will also reduce development time to achieve something and because it reduces complexity, it reduces the chance for bugs, which means less buggy software and a shorter development cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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