Compiler/IDE

This is a discussion on Compiler/IDE within the Windows Programming forums, part of the Platform Specific Boards category; You should be more worried with the GUI library you are going to use and less with the compiler and ...

  1. #16
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    You should be more worried with the GUI library you are going to use and less with the compiler and IDE.

    The compiler and IDE can change, the GUI library can't... unless you don't mind rewriting everything from scratch.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #17
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    Okay.

    Which GUI library would you recommend and which compiler/IDE?

  3. #18
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    My favoritism is well known by some. wxWidgets all the way. Nothing less.

    As for the compiler/IDE combination, depends highly on what you prefer. Try them all. I like very much mingw combined with SlickEdit (my favorite IDE). But it's an expensive option that you can replace with mingw and CodeBlocks.

    Microsoft compiler and debugger is perhaps the current best combo in the Windows environment (their IDE sucks in my opinion though, but SlickEdit upped my standards considerably). If you choose the wxWidget library, definitely go Microsoft and download the Express Edition. Its, of the compilers I had an opportunity to test, the one which provides the smallest object and executable sizes in the presence of this library... and I could almost swear fastest code.

    If you end up liking windows programming and wxWidgets library, my advise is to not go out with friends for a while, work in the weekends and beg a little. Save $300. When you get them, buy SlickEdit. It integrates with Microsoft tools and you get the best of both worlds; the best compiler/debugger and the best IDE.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    My favoritism is well known by some. wxWidgets all the way. Nothing less.

    As for the compiler/IDE combination, depends highly on what you prefer. Try them all. I like very much mingw combined with SlickEdit (my favorite IDE). But it's an expensive option that you can replace with mingw and CodeBlocks.

    Microsoft compiler and debugger is perhaps the current best combo in the Windows environment (their IDE sucks in my opinion though, but SlickEdit upped my standards considerably). If you choose the wxWidget library, definitely go Microsoft and download the Express Edition. Its, of the compilers I had an opportunity to test, the one which provides the smallest object and executable sizes in the presence of this library... and I could almost swear fastest code.

    If you end up liking windows programming and wxWidgets library, my advise is to not go out with friends for a while, work in the weekends and beg a little. Save $300. When you get them, buy SlickEdit. It integrates with Microsoft tools and you get the best of both worlds; the best compiler/debugger and the best IDE.
    I will try wxWidgets and download the Visual Basic Express edition. I figure VB will be better to start with than C++ or should I use the Visual C++ express edition?

    So, you suggest gettin SlickEdit, wxWidgets and download Microsoft express edition?


    EDIT: I am trying wxWidgets with mingw and CodeBlocks.
    Last edited by AaronHall; 06-23-2008 at 08:27 PM.

  5. #20
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    wxWidgets only applies to C++, not VB.
    Whichever IDE you use doesn't matter. Try them all out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #21
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    ...but SlickEdit upped my standards considerably
    I was not all that impressed with this product. Uninstalled it and haven't needed it at all. MSVS's biggest downfall is their debugger which is rather lacking when it comes to viewing dynamic memory of any type and anything that is templated. It also by default will not provide stack trace information after an exception. You 'can' however code this yourself. In order to get the most out of MSVS debugger and the environment you would have to get the book from Microsoft Press about debugging VS applications.

    AFAIK MSVS Express 2008 does not do/have:
    • MFC
    • A debugger capable of debugging multi-threaded apps (no threads window).
    • No support for remote debugging (not even sure if the debug remote app is included with the d/l)
    • Source control management add-in support (cannot integrate Perforce or any other SCM into the IDE)
    • No add-in manager (Don't think DevPartner or any other mem leak util will integrate with Express)
    • Normal amount of project template types (Express is very limited when it comes to project templates)
    • Does not have nearly as many command line options in the GUI as Standard or Professional - I believe the command line compiler still supports the normal flags, but the GUI provides no way to add them.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 06-24-2008 at 05:23 PM.

  7. #22
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Not sure what you mean Bubba. Don't you have a Debug->Windows->Threads menu item in your installation?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #23
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Yes but try to use it. In C# with threads going it was unable to 'switch' to the thread and show the call stack. I've had similar issues in C++. Because of all this I got a copy of 2005 Standard and while not perfect is very very good. When I move to 2008 I hope it will be much less painful than it was moving from MSVC 6 to MSVC 2005.

  9. #24
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Very interesting. I've been delaying coding threads for my application (I will use it to handle the parsing of multiple player orders files). I don't have 2008 yet either. But good to know about this.

    I'm however close to fully migrate to gcc in linux and stop the development on windows. My ThinkPad arrived last week and am already only changing code in order to fully move the development of the game to Linux. So I may not need to worry much... unless I end up discovering I'll need to debug the windows port threads. wxWidgets documentation swears I won't. Well...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I don't have 2008 yet either. But good to know about this.
    This was my experience so don't take it as complete fact. We all know that Visual Studio has these little setup quirks that can make it appear that something does not work when it really does.

    Myself and a co-worker were unable to get thread debugging to work in the Express editions. Fair warning about 2008 from a friend of mine. He switched his code base from 2005 to 2008 and had serious problems. According to him 2008 actually changed some braces and loops which messed his code up. I'm not sure if this was during one of those infamous project conversions or if it was something else. I have not used 2008 yet so I cannot personally backup his claims.

    Best bet when moving from 2005 to 2008 or any version for that matter is to recreate the project in the new version and then rebuild. Very painful but usually easier than doing a brute force conversion.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 06-24-2008 at 11:40 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Best bet when moving from 2005 to 2008 or any version for that matter is to recreate the project in the new version and then rebuild. Very painful but usually easier than doing a brute force conversion.
    This begs the question of why someone would go to all that trouble? If you code in ANSI C with Win32 API and a non-m$ IDE, you can avoid those kind of stupid problems all together. It's also nice not to be dependent on microsoft's expensive ........ if you're the type of person that actually pays for software. It's also nice when people can use your programs without having to update
    that Dot Net Framework BS every time you release a new version, so stay way from C#/.Net. There's no excuse for relying on that stuff. Learn to program without it.

    I personally use Dev-C++ w/ MinGW. Only thing that annoys me is the occasional IDE crash when debugging, but at least it saves everything before you compile to avoid any loss of work. I guess there is one other related annoyance. When you have an unhandled exception, the damn thing doesn't seem to be able to tell you what line it happened on, or even what function it was in. Rather irritating when neither the compiler nor the debugger can give you any clue where your problem is.
    Last edited by Viper187; 06-25-2008 at 10:10 AM.

  12. #27
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post
    This begs the question of why someone would go to all that trouble? If you code in ANSI C with Win32 API and a non-m$ IDE, you can avoid those kind of stupid problems all together. It's also nice not to be dependent on microsoft's expensive ........ if you're the type of person that actually pays for software. It's also nice when people can use your programs without having to update
    that Dot Net Framework BS every time you release a new version, so stay way from C#/.Net. There's no excuse for relying on that stuff. Learn to program without it.
    If you code strictly ANSI (ISO?) C/C++ and stay away from dotNet crap you shouldn't have any problem either.
    I haven't had any problems with upgrading from 2005 -> 2008, really. But I don't really work on such huge projects, so maybe it doesn't affect me.

    But as for the runtime front... you'll have to update eventually, and most of the time, that's a good thing, because the libraries contains more functionality or fixes.
    The same will happen for something compiled in GCC too, anyway, so I think the point is moot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #28
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    Have any of you ever used NetBeans IDE?

  14. #29
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    I just found wxDev-C++. It's the Dev-C++ IDE but supports wxWidgets and MinGW. Have any of you heard of it?

  15. #30
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    It's a wxWidgets based application meant to replace the defunct Dev-C++. Personally I don't think it will go anywhere - development cycles are being exceedingly long and currently there's important functionality still missing like, for instance, a proper debugger interface.

    It's no match to CodeBlocks which is a much more stable release, actively being developed and maintained and also build around the wxWidget library.

    Meanwhile, the alleged "supports wxWidgets" is marketing buff. wxWidget is a C++ library. While there may be built-in GUI functionality that may help speed the development process of a wxWidgets application, fact is "support" is on this case an attribute of the compiler not the IDE.

    Just get CodeBlocks.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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