advice picking a toolkit

This is a discussion on advice picking a toolkit within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; First, the execution environment has nothing at all to do with the programming language. It does, at least in the ...

  1. #16
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    First, the execution environment has nothing at all to do with the programming language.
    It does, at least in the real world of "common usage", as you noted with your "typically".
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  2. #17
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    I agree with CornedBee

    Those C runtime errors are programmed into the executable (I've seen them when disassembling some programs).
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  3. #18
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornedBee
    Now for the speed issue.
    I was under the impression the conversation was revolving around speed issues concerning VM machines and C++ native code. Not between different Java implemenations.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #19
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    One native code isn't that different from another. They're all native.
    All the buzzt!
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  5. #20
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    No. They aren't that different. Just like my C++ code isn't much different than yours. However yours will beat the s... of mine any day

    The question though was:

    "How can Java or C# interpreter interpret the java code to machine code faster than C++, if C++ already is machine"

    Since, as you pointed out, gcj isn't much of a compiler (to put it shortly), I don't see how that helps in the discussion.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #21
    The Right Honourable psychopath's Avatar
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    @CornedBee: Thanks for clearing that up.
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  7. #22
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I'm not having a go. I'm just genuinely confused between what was being discussed and the answer given by CornedBee. That's all. I need help understanding it.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #23
    The Right Honourable psychopath's Avatar
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    The discussion went from the OP wanting to use a toolkit with PHP, to how PHP is or isn't a general-purpose language, to how languages are compiled and interpreted, to VMs, to Java &C# vs C & C++.

    CornedBee was explaining how C and C++ are compiled, and how VM languages are compiled.

    At least that's what I've gotten from the thread.
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  9. #24
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    OK, let's return to the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator
    How can Java or C# interpreter interpret the java code to machine code faster than C++, if C++ already is machine code?
    For example:
    Dynamic profiling can lead to recompilation with different parameters, leading to a program that is more likely to assume the right thing. (Branch prediction!)
    Garbage collection is, under some circumstances, preferable to deterministic memory management in terms of speed. Especially bad deterministic memory management. Look at it this way: in Java, memory management is done by Sun's garbage collector programmers. They're probably experts in the field. They know what they're doing. In C++, every programmer does his own memory management. That includes all the novices. Guess who's better at doing it.
    All the buzzt!
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  10. #25
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Look at it this way: in Java, memory management is done by Sun's garbage collector programmers.
    Collecting garbage takes time, doesn't it?
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  11. #26
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    Ok.. this discussion is blowing in the wind.

    i could reply to the posts in the first page sentence by sentence. But i didnt open this thread to discuss the diference betwin a VM and an interpreter. I mean, i could discuss that, but not on this thread. About php, everyone interested should read about the latest developments.
    Just to give a short answer to a big mess: sorry mates, everybody uses the CGI nowadays and yes using php as an apache module is geting deprecated. Check you linux distro default instalation or all those all-in-one Windows-Apache-Mysql-Php packages.

    But.. what about toolkits and widgets? I would like to see someone poiting the good and bad things about a specific one based on previous experiences.

  12. #27
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I think you would be best served on a PHP specific board. Not doubting you will get an answer here (I believe you have already). But... this is kinda a group of forums oriented towards C based languages. The noise ratio can be considerable, as you just have witnessed, if the question doesn't pertain to the forums theme.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #28
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PedroTuga
    About php, everyone interested should read about the latest developments.
    You've got some articles, blog posts, news updates or discussions to point me to? I did a bit of searching, but couldn't find anything except a note on how the CGI module is easier to set up securely due to chrooting and similar mechanisms.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
    - Flon's Law

  14. #29
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Just to give a short answer to a big mess: sorry mates, everybody uses the CGI nowadays and yes using php as an apache module is geting deprecated.
    Are you really trying to make me laugh? Or make yourself seem stupid?

    Edit:
    I looked through Estonian browser based games. 16 of 16 of them were using PHP.
    The most common forum systems (vBulletin, phpBB and many other) are using PHP.
    Then I looked for some international game sites (small flash games). And guess what! They're using PHP (or no filename extensions or ASP).
    Last edited by maxorator; 11-17-2006 at 06:43 AM.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornedBee
    You've got some articles, blog posts, news updates or discussions to point me to? I did a bit of searching, but couldn't find anything except a note on how the CGI module is easier to set up securely due to chrooting and similar mechanisms.
    I didnt said it was easier - which it is - i said it's more used.
    A normal php instalation is not the apache module. Plus, other webservers have to use the CGI


    Get an all in one LAMP or WAMP package
    OR
    google for lamp instalation instructions and follow them
    OR
    simply run phpinfo() in your hosting company and check it out.

    maxorator: you should read what i wrote and check out if you know what i am talkling about before replying that way. If there is someone here making himself stupid is not me. No offense.

    Now about the toolkits... ok.. damit, i only said i am using php in order to filter unavaluable solutions.

    Which toolkit do you preffer and why?
    In case you can and/or feel like it you can refer to some issues related to its usage with php.

    Thank you

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