C/C++ Vs Java

This is a discussion on C/C++ Vs Java within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; I am taking C++ courses, I have never used JAVA yet. But everytime I read an article on the net, ...

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    C/C++ Vs Java

    I am taking C++ courses, I have never used JAVA yet. But everytime I read an article on the net, programmers are always preferring the JAVA laguage over the C++ laguage, saying that it is more reliable and has less holes.. I need your feedback about this subject..
    Thank you

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    Master of the Universe! velius's Avatar
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    That would probably come from someone who does not know the C++ language. Also they are problably refering to code portability. Something you don't need to worry about with Java so much. But hell if people would write ANSI/ISO C++ code only then there would not be an issue. I personally prefer to use C++. I to don't know much about java at all. I am in college for Computer Science and the director and board chair told me I'd learn C, C++ and Java by the time I complete the four year course. He also said that I may get some assembly knowledge as well. Any ways those people are the ones that are blowing smoke up others asses.
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    Java is basically a version like c++ and c for the internet.
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    PC Fixer-Upper Waldo2k2's Avatar
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    >>Java is basically a version like c++ and c for the internet.

    wrong. Java is popular for use on the net, that's not why it was made. I can use C on the net too.
    Java is a lot like C++, but has wrapped several procedures into functions (certain types of string conversion, things like that). It was created, as Velius mentioned, for greater portability. Because of the nature of the java interpreter, code should work on all platforms. But just like any other language, if you write code to run on windows, it won't work on *nix.
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    Registered User FloatingPoint's Avatar
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    Personally I wouldn't bother much abt ppl saying Java is the more preffered language, until I understand fully the basics of C++. As many of you have said, learn one language and try to master it, and the others would be easy to understand.

    But sure one could always take Java as his/her first language.
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    First, I want to say that I have been programming in Java, C, and C++ for almost 4 years.

    I'm saddened by the direction that this is going. I know that many high schools have switched their AP CS curriculum to Java and so have some universities (mine included)-- the CS program at my university doesn't even offer classes in C/C++ anymore.

    While I feel that Java has a definite niche-- web apps, small devices, "toy" programs"-- it is not a mainstream language. The syntax is clunky, the library is inconsistent, and the interpreters are dreadfully slow-- though they are improving. I think it would be a mistake for it to become the "Next Big Thing."

    That said, I think a language like Java will and should become the next big thing. Small executable size, portability, and garbage collection are becoming important factors in the programming world.

    However, Java is, IMO, missing some key features that I will mention briefly.

    1. Operator overloading
    I feel that this is very important in an object oriented language. When using objects, operators that make sense should work for that object. For example, in some sort of restaurant program, it should make sense to be able to add two orders together.

    2. "Primitives" derived from base object
    Java's primitive types cannot be stored in default containers. Containers can only hold objects derived from the base object. Java offers primitive wrappers like Integer, Double, etc-- the trouble with these wrappers is linked to the operator overloading problem above. It should make sense to be able to add two Integer objects together. Without overloading, the wrappers are practically useless except as a means to store utility functions. So you're forced to choose between expected behavior or "containerability"

    3. A consistent standard library
    Java's library is a mess. Just note the names of the primitive wrappers above-- the wrapper for double is called Double but the wrapper for int is called Integer. Why not call it Int? Why do I have to instantiate a hierarchy of objects just to do something as common as reading a file?

    4. Generic programming
    I suppose I've been spoiled by the STL. I find the algorithms and generic containers to be invaluable. Java offers generic Vector, Hashtable, Stack, etc. containers, but these only hold pointers to the base object. They cannot hold primitives (unless placed into one of the wrappers). You have to cast the result every time you want to use an object that is in the container, and, as a result, they are not type-safe.

    Note that this is not an attack on Java itself-- it is an expression of my disappointment. I feel that Sun really dropped the ball when it could have developed the first mainstream, portable, interpreted, garbage-collected application programming language.

    But, to give my input on the question at hand: "Is Java preferable to C++?"

    Well, you're comparing apples and oranges. For application programming, C++ is the absolute winner. For portability, web applets, or small devices, Java is a good choice.

    It basically boils down to the fact that it's a good idea to know a variety of languages so that you can tackle the problem at hand with the best possible tool.

    I hope this post provides some insight.

    -tf

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    Java is a great text-book language. It makes lots of things fairly simple -- multi-threading, IO is manageable, network programming is straightforward. It enforces object-oriented principles, much to the delight of lecturers, no doubt. That's the good.

    After programming in Java for quite a while, it soon becomes frustrating. Amongst these annoyances (in no particular order):

    1. Error-handling is ugly. The enforced try-catch or throws is just a pain. C# saw this and dispensed with checked exceptions. C++ is also better in this regard.

    2. Lists are a pain. Losing type information, and the lack of compiler-enforced checks, is again a pain. It makes code involving lists horribly ugly. Once again, C# has gone some way to correct this. Java's 1.5 Generics are a hideous hack.

    3. Primitives throw a spanner in the works. Java is geared towards everything being an object. For reasons behind me (ostensibly for speed, though a good compiler should be able to use objects instead). This means that you have to box every primitive as an object just to put it into a list. It results in code so ugly and verbose that you'll want to cry.

    4. Java talks down to you. Java won't allow you to do lots of stuff C++ will -- operator overloading, for example. STL too. It sacrifices power for small-scale readability/simplicity. This readability is lost on a larger scale, though, as the lack of possible abstractions ultimately complicate code.

    5. Java GUIs are disgusting. AWT was bad, and Swing is worse. AWT had the right idea -- bindings to native code, as I understand it -- but it had the lowest-common-denominator of components to allow for portability. No trees, etc. Swing went the other way -- entirely Java-based. It's extremely slow, as a result. C++ GUIs are much better, in general. GTK is nice, and Windows GUIs are good.

    6. Java is bloated. 4mb of JRE 1.4 to execute a HelloWorld app. C++ is much better here, too.

    7. C++ is much, much faster.

    8. Java, I predict, will turn out like COBOL. A language nobody wants to get involved in. C++ has more going for it, as it is more flexible. C# addresses some, but not all, of Java's failings. C++'s backwards-compatibility with C is a bonus -- C has been around for 30-ish years, and is still going strong. In a sense, C++ is an adoption of C -- C plus object-orientation. C is proven, so I'd stick with it and its derivatives.

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    By the way, has anyone heard about DigiPen and the RTIS ( Real Time Interactive Simulation) major offered there?

    If yes, I need any information you have about this subject.

    Thank you

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    JAVA is terrible! I hate that language so much!

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    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    There's a guy who used to visit these boards very regular who went by the name of PolymorphicOOP. He's a student at DigiPen. I'd suggest tracking him down.
    FAQ

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    PC Fixer-Upper Waldo2k2's Avatar
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    >>PolymorphicOOP

    damn, i forgot about him. Weird how people come and go...do you remember that one guy who hated me and a couple other people? He had a penguin avatar, always said he was a MS beta tester...sort of a troll...damn, can't remember who he was (no not trollking). You remember who that was?
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    carry on JaWiB's Avatar
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    Weird how people come and go...
    I agree lol...remember ethic? That wasn't too long ago (I remember him pretty clearly)...That polymorphic guy I think I remember vaguely, but he must have disappeared soon after I joined..Also, where did Prelude go?? She says she's going on a business trip and weeks later, still no Prelude
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    Check the contests forum - she was on a second ago.
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    carry on JaWiB's Avatar
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    Wow its like magic! I post that and then the next day, look who shows up
    "Think not but that I know these things; or think
    I know them not: not therefore am I short
    Of knowing what I ought."
    -John Milton, Paradise Regained (1671)

    "Work hard and it might happen."
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    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    I must say, I don't particularly like the way Java handles inheritance and 'interfaces'. I much prefer not only the C++ syntax, but I like the fact that you can derived from multiple base classes, for example. And the 'interface', though comparable to an ADT is a pain to have to treat differently.

    Also, I really miss C++-style pointers in Java.
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