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who is self taught among u ppl?

This is a discussion on who is self taught among u ppl? within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; I'm reading accelerated c++ n tryin 2 teach myself c++, although english is not my native language. Is anyone here ...

  1. #1
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    who is self taught among u ppl?

    I'm reading accelerated c++ n tryin 2 teach myself c++, although english is not my native language. Is anyone here self taught? Was it hard? How long did it take 2 learn the language?

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    SAMARAS std10093's Avatar
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    Learning is a constant process. If you mean, how long did it take to feel comfortable with the language, then I would say, as long as I started writing code and eventually did a project in C++.

    Reading books is just not enough for programming. You must code too!

    //PS - I am not self taught in C++, but in Java
    Code - functions and small libraries I use


    It’s 2014 and I still use printf() for debugging.


    "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. " —Harold Abelson

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    I'm self-taught in C, C++, Java and Python amongst other languages (I've never been taught computing/programming formally/by anyone else).

    As std10093 says, you can't really get to a point where you can say you've "fully learnt" a language, but if you can write useful, self-contained applications in it then that's a good first step. IIRC, I got my first job as a programmer about 2 years after starting to teach myself, but not all of that was very intensive or focused on getting a job in the field.
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    thx guys, Plz, keep sharing your experiences as self taught programmers.

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    Everyone who is proficient in a programming language is self-taught to some degree. A formal course, or textbook, can only provide provide a starting point. It takes continual effort to learn from there.

    Coding is necessary, but not sufficient, to become proficient. An extraordinary number of people proceed just by hacking and produce code that is neither useful nor understandable. It is also necessary to develop skills in using code for a purpose (i.e. writing code to meet requirements, and evaluating if the requirements have actually been met) and that takes more than just learning the syntax and being able to type code.

    I've yet to succeed in fully learning C++.
    rogster001 and iMalc like this.
    Right 98% of the time, and don't care about the other 3%.

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    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    self taught
    >_<

    I hate that phrase.

    We are not "self-taught".

    We all stand on the shoulders of giants.

    We may be "self-directed".

    Beyond that, grumpy is right; you'll never get anywhere if you rely solely on a teacher to direct your studies.

    I've yet to succeed in fully learning C++.
    The man himself, Bjarne Stroustrup, was corrected in a mailing list here a few months back.

    C++ is a not a language that is ever "fully learned".

    Honestly though, despite saying "I know $(Language)." for the sake of simplicity, I'm convinced that any such language as to be "fully learned" exists. Well, at least one that is still actively used in the great elsewhere.

    Soma

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    "Self taught" is a common abbreviated description of someone who has undergone self-directed learning, Soma.
    Right 98% of the time, and don't care about the other 3%.

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    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro Tensai View Post
    I'm reading accelerated c++ n tryin 2 teach myself c++, although english is not my native language. Is anyone here self taught? Was it hard? How long did it take 2 learn the language?
    I never took a class to learn C or C++. In academia, languages are usually taught along with CS course work, not as subjects in themselves. How long did it take me? I don't consider myself done yet. So... 15 years?

    But I don't expect that kind of patience is something you'll be able to summon up, seeing as you're too impatient to spell "you people" correctly.
    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

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    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    "Self taught" is a common abbreviated description of someone who has undergone self-directed learning, Soma.
    Yes? And?

    *shrug*

    I invite you to take more than two seconds for a knee-jerk response and see for yourself how arrogantly a lot of people use the phrase.

    If you don't understand my distaste after you see how it is also used, you are an idiot.

    I am not saying that such was intended here, but that is why I hate the phrase.

    Soma

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    Registered User rogster001's Avatar
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    This is a good theme - I have arguments with a friend regarding being 'self taught' as a musician - becuase he often says that about his cousin who is an outstanding player - The thing is i dont beleive there is any such thing as self taught - I became good at guitar and had i suppose a couple of hours formal lessons - but that really does not count for much - the majority of my learning has come from jamming with mates, being amongst like minded folk, swapping ideas etc etc, And it is exactly the same with programming i feel - You cannot be constantly in an environment where you have lessons - can you?? maybe you can, but there has to be that time where you are just learning anyway, because it is an interest of yours, something you are into - without that interest i dont think you can really progress
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    I invite you to take more than two seconds for a knee-jerk response and see for yourself how arrogantly a lot of people use the phrase.
    Sure. But the discussion here has yet to go down such lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    If you don't understand my distaste after you see how it is also used, you are an idiot.
    Expressing distaste for some misuse of an expression, in a context where it has yet to be misused, is more a sign of obstreperousness than intelligence.
    Right 98% of the time, and don't care about the other 3%.

  12. #12
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    the majority of my learning has come from jamming with mates, being amongst like minded folk, swapping ideas etc
    I've always felt that a group effort is a solid win.

    Expressing distaste for some misuse of an expression, in a context where it has yet to be misused, is more a sign of obstreperousness than intelligence.
    [Edit]
    You know, I just don't think this worth discussing with you anymore.
    [/Edit]

    Soma
    Last edited by phantomotap; 02-11-2013 at 01:02 PM.

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    the only formal teaching I received in programming was in 8th grade, when I had one quarter in my science class of BASIC programming on the Apple II. in high school, in the early days of the public internet, and before the standard, I started learning C++, and while I'd now call myself quite proficient, I'm definitely still learning. I also started learning python and C# a couple of years ago, and while I'm not especially proficient in either of those languages, many concepts from C++ transfer over, either as syntax or just good overall practices. to learn all of these languages, I read a lot of books, spent a lot of time in search engines, wrote a lot of code, and most importantly, learned how to use a debugger and read error messages.

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    Registered User C_ntua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro Tensai View Post
    I'm reading accelerated c++ n tryin 2 teach myself c++, although english is not my native language. Is anyone here self taught? Was it hard? How long did it take 2 learn the language?
    OK. To get out of the loop of "self-taught" let me just phrase it as "learn by experience". In this case I would say that no, you shouldn't learn programming only by experience. It is quite more complicated if you want to right quality code and in the end be efficient. In other words, if you want to do it professionally. So there are somethings you should learn, including basic understanding of the architecture of a computer. Not knowing what a cache memory is will make it hard to understand why an array is usually much faster than a linked list on a modern CPU. There are then the best practices, the way the libraries were indented to work, the "donts" and so on.

    If the question is should you go to a University to learn then I would say it not required, it mostly just gives you credibility because employers don't have the time to always test you. You can read from books or from other trusted sources. You can definitely learn from this forum and in general from peers. The point is to actually learn and not just write code. So if you search "how to copy a string in C" you probably will end up with some code suggesting the use of strcpy(). And you will be happy. But if you don't have a good understanding it is likely that your code will end up being another door for a hacker. If you know learn what exactly the piece of code does then you know how to handle it properly, which learning might require first learning some more basic stuff

  15. #15
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_ntua
    To get out of the loop of "self-taught" let me just phrase it as "learn by experience". In this case I would say that no, you shouldn't learn programming only by experience.
    You should also learn it by other people's experience
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