Like Tree34Likes

Stop laptop battery from charging beyond certain point

This is a discussion on Stop laptop battery from charging beyond certain point within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Subsonics I have to say though, that one incident is insignificant statistically and would count as anecdotal ...

  1. #61
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    I have to say though, that one incident is insignificant statistically and would count as anecdotal evidence, it could be down to a coincidence etc. Where as having seen 250 incidents would provide some statistical credibility that the observation is not just a coincidence.
    Are you sure that Tater's claim is not, in fact, essentially anecdotal?

    I would not expect toshiba to take action if just one person phoned this in, of course, and I totally agree that to some third party individual anecdotes are not as meaningful as statistical data. But there is statistical data, and then there is statistical data . I also doubt that toshiba would take action just because one person phoned in and said they personally had seen this 200 or 1000 times. The value of "statistical evidence" depends upon how it is gathered. Eg, if you took it to court, the fact that you had 200 busted computers would not be enough evidence unless you could provide further evidence that they busted because they were flawed.

    Evidence of that sort is about logic and empirical demonstration, not statistics. I think in mathematics there is the concept of proof, and proof is not about having 200 calculators that say 2+2=5.

    Identifying a design flaw is similar -- you need to find the flaw, not just the failures that imply a flaw. Statistical failures only imply the presence of a problem, and may help you to find it, but they do not prove that it exists.

    So my point was, if I broke a power jack on a computer in near darkness one night stumbling drunk while talking on the phone, I might regard that, as you say, as coincidence. However, if I broke it while paying full attention, being careful, in a sound state of mind, I would not have to do that more than once to recognize this mechanism is excessively delicate. Observing something 200 times does not necessarily make you a better observer.

    Statistics are also very prone to abuse and interpretation (because they are not hard evidence). Take your statistics with a grain of salt. CommonTater saying, "I've been in charge of 250 laptops" is a good reason to pay attention if he has an observation about laptops, but it is in no way proof that what he says is accurate, or to put your brain on hold while considering the possibility.

    So, in regard to the original topic,
    1) the statistical evidence online buries CT's (essentially anecdotal) sample.
    2) altho CT's statistics (if accurate) may imply a certain conclusion, a coherent theory and some logic is required to connect the two, and I have not seen that. Just the "argument to authority" stuff, and a lot of rambling. It is simply too easy to come up with any number of explanations why one person would have observed (or believe, or claim to have observed) a phenomenon in a particular context.
    Last edited by MK27; 01-17-2012 at 01:51 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #62
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Are you sure that Tater's claim is not, in fact, essentially anecdotal?
    Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I would not expect toshiba to take action if just one person phoned this in, of course, and I totally agree that to some third party individual anecdotes are not as meaningful as statistical data. But there is statistical data, and then there is statistical data . I also doubt that toshiba would take action just because one person phoned in and said they personally had seen this 200 or 1000 times. The value of "statistical evidence" depends upon how it is gathered. Eg, if you took it to court, the fact that you had 200 busted computers would not be enough evidence unless you could provide further evidence that they busted because they were flawed.

    Evidence of that sort is about logic and empirical demonstration, not statistics. I think in mathematics there is the concept of proof, and proof is not about having 200 calculators that say 2+2=5.
    Totally, but I'm not really talking about proofs here more about indications, and proofs as rigorous as mathematical ones does not really exist outside of maths. Besides an empirical demonstration can consist of statistics. However my only point here was that 250 incidents provides stronger indications than 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Statistical failures only imply the presence of a problem, and may help you to find it, but they do not prove that it exists.
    I would say that it can prove the presence i.e that it exists, but not what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    So my point was, if I broke a power jack on a computer in near darkness one night stumbling drunk while talking on the phone, I might regard that, as you say, as coincidence. However, if I broke it while paying full attention, being careful, in a sound state of mind, I would not have to do that more than once to recognize this mechanism is excessively delicate. Observing something 200 times does not necessarily make you a better observer.
    True, but you could by chance have gotten your self a unit with a fabrication fault that is very rare and not at all typical.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Statistics are also very prone to abuse and interpretation (because they are not hard evidence). Take your statistics with a grain of salt. CommonTater saying, "I've been in charge of 250 laptops" is a good reason to pay attention if he has an observation about laptops, but it is in no way proof that what he says is accurate, or to put your brain on hold while considering the possibility.

    So, in regard to the original topic,
    1) the statistical evidence online buries CT's (essentially anecdotal) sample.
    2) altho CT's statistics (if accurate) may imply a certain conclusion, a coherent theory and some logic is required to connect the two, and I have not seen that. Just the "argument to authority" stuff, and a lot of rambling. It is simply too easy to come up with any number of explanations why one person would have observed (or believe, or claim to have observed) a phenomenon in a particular context.
    I know that statistics are prone to abuse and interpretation, but that does not mean that used properly (not talking about my example here mind you ) it can not be used as evidence. But I really just latched on to that last bit I quoted, I don't know anything about batteries.
    MK27 likes this.

  3. #63
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    I would say that [statistics] can prove the presence i.e that it exists, but not what it is.
    Yeah, you're right -- this is a bit over the top:

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    Statistical failures only imply the presence of a problem, and may help you to find it, but they do not prove that it exists.
    I guess I got a bit carried away . Good thing we don't ban people just for being wrong, lol.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  4. #64
    Registered User kanak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    India
    Posts
    2

    this is for cyberfish

    please tell me what is USB controlled relay. give me details if i can use it

  5. #65
    Registered User kanak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    India
    Posts
    2

    what is USB controlled relay?

    please tell me what is USB controlled relay. May me I am searching for it.

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,183

  7. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,421
    Quote Originally Posted by kanak View Post
    please tell me what is USB controlled relay. May me I am searching for it.
    start a new thread for your question. don't hijack someone else's thread.
    Code:
    namespace life
    {
        const bool change = true;
    }

  8. #68
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    5,498
    Oh necromancer! necromancer!
    What thoughts in your dark head
    Would make you want to bring to life
    A long-expired thread?

    Seriously, instead of dredging up an old (2 year old!) thread and hijacking it for your own purposes, try searching the web first. We are not a Google proxy service. Hint: go to Google or your favorite search engine, and enter the search terms USB controlled relay. If that proves to have no useful information (hint: it will have useful info), then come back and ask us for help. Ask all of us. cyberfish is a smart guy, but there are lots more people on here who could also help you, and give you a broader perspective than just one person. And waiting for cyberfish to answer may take a while, whereas another member may respond more quickly.
    Matticus and Salem like this.

  9. #69
    Internet Superhero
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    964
    Oh, i remember this thread.

    ...it was horrible.
    cyberfish likes this.
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  10. #70
    Registered User Codeplug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    4,669
    A thread like this! Someone should close - before more ppl like me come along.

    gg

  11. #71
    Registered User manasij7479's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kolkata@India
    Posts
    2,498
    A dark power dwells in here...
    ..such as I have never felt before!
    It is the shadow of an ancient Horror!
    One that can summon the threads of the dead.
    I saw him Moderators...
    ...from out of the darkness, a Necromancer has come...
    cyberfish and GReaper like this.
    Manasij Mukherjee | gcc-4.8.2 @Arch Linux
    Slow and Steady wins the race... if and only if :
    1.None of the other participants are fast and steady.
    2.The fast and unsteady suddenly falls asleep while running !



  12. #72
    and the hat of wrongness Salem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The edge of the known universe
    Posts
    32,546
    Name:  ThreadNecromancy2.jpg
Views: 127
Size:  86.0 KB
    This is done - closed!
    If you dance barefoot on the broken glass of undefined behaviour, you've got to expect the occasional cut.
    If at first you don't succeed, try writing your phone number on the exam paper.
    I support http://www.ukip.org/ as the first necessary step to a free Europe.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Basic C help. charging battery DC RC circuit in series
    By yellowmania in forum C Programming
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-28-2011, 09:29 PM
  2. Battery charging algorithm
    By bloody in forum C++ Programming
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-07-2011, 12:44 AM
  3. Stop button doesnt stop a function (using PostMessage)
    By scwizzo in forum Windows Programming
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-07-2008, 06:54 PM
  4. How does a battery die
    By BobMcGee123 in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-30-2007, 07:55 PM
  5. Do i need a new battery ?
    By Nutshell in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-06-2002, 03:20 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21