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Stop laptop battery from charging beyond certain point

This is a discussion on Stop laptop battery from charging beyond certain point within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by CommonTater Are you really sure you want to argue electronics with an engineering technologist who's twice your ...

  1. #31
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    Are you really sure you want to argue electronics with an engineering technologist who's twice your age?
    I don't care if you're the Pope. Your CV doesn't matter to me at all if half the time you speak logic and reason go flying out the window. I've been a witness to too much "expert incompetence" to believe anything else.

    All one has to do is design the charging circuit to switch at about 95% of that voltage and you have achieved the desired combination of longest per-charge use time without degrading the overall lifetime of the battery.
    Again, this "95%" is a number you have just pulled out of the air in relation to "desired combination", which is exactly the point of the discussion: the longer the per-use charge, the shorter the lifetime of the battery.

    BUT, if you would stay with the original question, the concern was not about running the laptop on batteries every day it was about overcharging the batters because he *DOES NOT* run it on batteries all the time...
    Your three card monty style rhetoric obviously doesn't fool many people, why do you bother?

    Neither I nor anyone else have said anything about "running on batteries all the time" (except equating 1000 charges with 3 years of daily use), nor was overcharging the original question:

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Anyone know of a Linux (and Windows) program to stop laptop charging past a certain point?

    For example, right now I am using my laptop as a desktop replacement, and I want the battery installed for backup. However, by default the battery will be charged to and maintained at 100%.

    100% is bad for long term storage. I want it to be maintained at 40% instead.
    I don't see anything about overcharging in there -- clearly the OP recognizes that the battery is "by default...charged to and maintained at 100%". There is no concern about it being inappropriately overcharged by the charger. You are tilting windmills, as often seems to be the case. Evidently all your decades of knowing everything has still not left you with much skill at reading comprehension or thinking clearly.

    What I do see, quite plainly, is the statement that someone believes storing a battery at 100% (normal, recommended, whatever) capacity is worse for the battery than storing it at 40%, which according to all reports I found is true, and is the reason I started leaving my battery out when not in use. No one in the world but you has even tried to refute this -- or maybe you have a source for such wisdom beyond your own pomposity?
    Last edited by MK27; 01-11-2012 at 10:15 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I don't care if you're the Pope. Your CV doesn't matter to me at all if half the time you speak logic and reason go flying out the window. I've been a witness to too much "expert incompetence" to believe anything else.

    Again, this "95%" is a number you have just pulled out of the air in relation to "desired combination", which is exactly the point of the discussion: the longer the per-use charge, the shorter the lifetime of the battery.

    Nope.

    I don't see anything about overcharging in there. I see, very clearly and plainly, the statement that someone believes that storing a battery at 100% normal capacity is worse for the battery than storing it at 40%, which according to all reports I found is true. No one in the world but you has even tried to refute this -- or maybe you have a source for such wisdom beyond your own pomposity?
    And people wonder why I get ........ed off at you...

    Try writing without the insults and putdowns...
    They're not helping you one little bit.

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    People are just frustrated because you kept talking about something completely unrelated, even after a few people tried to point it out to you, and then started bragging about your 30 years electronics experience, 250 laptops experience, and 5 giving birth experiences.

    Can we get back to the topic of discussion now? And no, it's not about overcharging the battery.
    Programmer_P likes this.

  4. #34
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    And people wonder why I get ........ed off at you...

    Try writing without the insults and putdowns...
    They're not helping you one little bit.
    Well, I apologize for being a little blunt, but I don't see you pulling many punches. Also: it's obviously not just me that gets you ........ed off, so I'm not sure if my attitude is the real issue here.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Ok... so you want to keep your laptop charged to only 40% while it's running on AC power because you're somehow convinced that charging it to 100% will degrade the lifetime of your batteries...

    My discussion was not unrelated...
    You are talking about running a machine on AC power nearly continuously for several months.
    That is the exact usage scenario I've been addressing.

    1) I don't know of any software method to stop a PC from *correctly* charging your batteries.

    2) If you have to unplug and go mobile, you're cutting your use-time in half, which isn't such a good idea.

    3) As I've explained REPEATEDLY the risk of damage or degredation (since you seem to think these are two different things) is very low... With a large enough number of machines out there to get a good sample, I *never* had the problem. I personally have a netbook that's been on AC power 24/7 for most of it's 4 year life... Last night I unplugged it to see what the battery life was. The manufacturer rates it for 2 hours of continuous use... I got nearly 2 1/2 hours... after 4 years which is longer than most people keep portables to begin with.


    The problem here is that you aren't getting the answers you want... so, ok...

    Yes, you're going to *** your batteries. They'll melt right into puddles of acidic goo and your computer will never work right again.


    Really... what part of "Don't worry about it", do you not understand?
    Last edited by CommonTater; 01-11-2012 at 10:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Well, I apologize for being a little blunt, but I don't see you pulling many punches. Also: it's obviously not just me that gets you ........ed off, so I'm not sure if my attitude is the real issue here.
    Well... as apologies go that massively sucks... but I'll take it.

  7. #37
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    2) If you have to unplug and go mobile, you're cutting your use-time in half, which isn't such a good idea.
    If you know that you won't need more than that (see posts 24 and 28), it is a good idea, because it is better for the battery. People want to know that they can get as many hours as possible when they need to, which is a big factor in that "desired combination" determining the maximum recommended charge.

    Generally, the only thing I use my battery for is to move the computer from one plug to another. I'm not worried about emergencies, blackouts, etc. so I don't see the point in leaving the battery fully charged, or warm, or for that matter, in the computer at all.

    3) As I've explained REPEATEDLY the risk of damage or degredation (since you seem to think these are two different things) is very low... I personally have a netbook that's been on AC power 24/7 for most of it's 4 year life...
    Great, but obviously, the major factor is how many times you actually discharged the battery, and how much you discharged it each time. As has previously been stated, just leaving it while the computer is plugged in is essentially storing the battery, and the premise is that storing it at 40% charge is better than storing it at 100% charge.

    If you look back thru this thread, you'll notice a few people relate they or people they know have "personally" experienced noticable battery degradation within 4 years, so your experience is evidently the exception, and not the rule. If you barely ever used it, this is not much of an anecdote.

    Presuming most people actually do completely discharge a battery regularly -- every day or so (which is what I notice many people I know doing) -- manufacturers, independent researchers, the rest of the known universe, all seem to concur that the battery will wear out after 1000 or so cycles, and that storage charge, storage temperature, etc. will affect this. I think it even says stuff to that affect in my manual. Why do you insist it's not true? There's nothing anyone else sees as contentious here at all.

    If you are constantly discharging the battery simply because you figure you might as well, etc. it might be worth knowing that this pointlessly diminishes it's lifespan. Likewise, knowing what the ideal state to leave the battery in is, which (according to researchers) is 40% charged and as cold as possible.
    Last edited by MK27; 01-11-2012 at 11:15 AM.
    cyberfish likes this.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  8. #38
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    Can we get back to the topic of discussion now? And no, it's not about overcharging the battery.
    On that note, I've heard back from Asus and the response was "You can't change the charge level for [trickle charge] in software. [We] recommend you remove the battery after a partial discharge if you aren't using your laptop."

    I had thought maybe if you could get trickle charge to kick in at %40 or something this sort of thing might work. It seems like that is not going to happen, but you could always ask your manufacturer; some of them like to throw a lot of hidden settings in BIOS.

    Soma
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  9. #39
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Isn't this discussion all about charging the battery to 40%, removing it and putting it in the refrigerator (while still running laptop on A/C)?
    Why is it so difficult to just answer that question?

    I don't know of a method to stop charging a battery after a certain %, but wouldn't is simply be possible to disconnect the A/C and let it discharge to 40%, hibernate and remove the battery?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    On that note, I've heard back from Asus and the response was "You can't change the charge level for [trickle charge] in software. [We] recommend you remove the battery after a partial discharge if you aren't using your laptop."

    I had thought maybe if you could get trickle charge to kick in at %40 or something this sort of thing might work. It seems like that is not going to happen, but you could always ask your manufacturer; some of them like to throw a lot of hidden settings in BIOS.

    Soma
    Thanks. That's good (by good I mean bad) to know . Maybe I'll hack together a hardware solution, then. Like a bluetooth controlled relay.

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    Isn't this discussion all about charging the battery to 40%, removing it and putting it in the refrigerator (while still running laptop on A/C)?
    Why is it so difficult to just answer that question?
    Yeah most (by most I mean all except 1) of us got it.

    I don't know of a method to stop charging a battery after a certain %, but wouldn't is simply be possible to disconnect the A/C and let it discharge to 40%, hibernate and remove the battery?
    That would be an alternative, but if possible, I want to leave the battery in laptop because 1) it can work as UPS, and 2) self discharge means I have to remember to put it back and recharge it a bit once in a while.

  12. #42
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    That would be an alternative, but if possible, I want to leave the battery in laptop because 1) it can work as UPS, and 2) self discharge means I have to remember to put it back and recharge it a bit once in a while.
    I don't think the self discharge will be severe in such a short period of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    That's true. Probably just a few % over 8 months.

    Hmm maybe taking the battery out is a better solution.

  14. #44
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I don't know of a method to stop charging a battery after a certain %, but wouldn't is simply be possible to disconnect the A/C and let it discharge to 40%, hibernate and remove the battery?
    WHOAH!
    Bad logic.

    While storing the battery at 40% is optimal, the most significant wear is produced during actual discharge. So taking a battery that's charged to 70% and then discharging it to 40% for no reason is missing the forest for the trees (unless you are planning to store the battery for months, I guess...).

    Don't intentionally use it up just to get the charge to 40%. Just keep that figure in mind. If you forget to take it out before then, take it out at 70% or 100% or whatever and let it be.

    With that in mind, you could certainly write some kind of simple alarm to let you know when the charge reaches a certain point. Probably > 50 lines depending on the OS and the nature of the alarm. Hmmmm.
    Last edited by MK27; 01-14-2012 at 04:44 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  15. #45
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind that it is likely the battery will be at 100% before the discharge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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