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IPv6 Software updating....

This is a discussion on IPv6 Software updating.... within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by CommonTater One of the big touts I keep seeing for v6 is "everything connects to everything else"... ...

  1. #16
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    One of the big touts I keep seeing for v6 is "everything connects to everything else"... exactly the opposite of what I want. I mean, really... does your toaster have to connect to a vaccuum cleaner in South Africa?
    Where do you get this stuff from? People magazine? It's totally crazy. "IPv6" is just a new and slightly improved IP protocol, that's all. There's nothing dramatic about it. Some tech writers get excited every time someone turns a light on, perhaps because they read so many hyperbolic media releases written by corporate PR departments promoting new products ("a whole new way of looking at spreadsheets!", etc) and they want to be part of that inflated and hyperbolic culture.

    This is not a "whole new form of internet" or anything.

    IPv6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by MK27; 12-05-2011 at 08:45 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Oddly enough that's the article I read first... clear as mud!

    I've been all over the web trying to find solid answers but all I keep finding is disagreement and contradiction.

    The discussion that caused my initial questions went like this...

    Client: "How much is it going to cost for you to update your code to the new IPv6?"
    Me: "I'm not sure, let me have a day or two and I'll get back to you..."

    To self: "Ok lets see what we can learn..."
    5 days later: "what a #$%@#^@%^ mess!"

    Client: "Well any progress?"
    Me: "None."

    What I learned is that there is no concise information out there that isn't contradicted somewhere else...

    It's not just a "new and slightly improved IP protocol and nothing else"... it's a complete rewrite of large portions of many of lont-time stable applications that currently work just fine with IPv4 .... For an end user, your statement is correct... for a programmer who has to figure out how to work with this stuff at the sockets (or deeper) level it's a flaming nightmare of confusion and contradiction with NO consensus to be found.

    There are a hundred concerns... Like when I enable IPv6 on my Windows 7 system how does my NIC chip's MAC address end up in there? I really don't think I want to be broadcasting the MAC address of a computer that is using "power on from lan" functions in a home-theatre environment with 500 and up to 2500 watts of audio power at it's disposal. Firewall or not, that's just a flat out bad idea... and there's a lot more... Like why do I need 65536 IP spaces for a router with 3 computers connected to it? And what happened to the broadcast address? and on and on... It seems like nearly everything I took advantage of, while safely ensconsed behind a firewall and NAT in IPv4 is gone...

    I don't know about you but I really don't want to base my code on "7 out of 10 dentists recommend..." than you very much.

  3. #18
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    I don't know why you have to think about all of that. If you are doing that, even with IPv4, I am going to have to pop a big question: WHY?
    You are not supposed to have to know the internal workings of the protocol. Programmers should use the API found in the OS to handle the network.
    If you need to broadcast, I found this among the first results on google: Multicast address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    MK27 likes this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  4. #19
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    Oddly enough that's the article I read first... clear as mud!
    What's confusing about it?

    I think you should start off by deciding what the minimum you have to do to create a working "IPv6 alpha testing" version of your stuff would be (changing the sockets, maybe some functions for dealing with "IPv4 mapped" addresses, etc), see how that works, and then consider issues like security. Start coding -- that's your concrete reality.

    Don't try doing everything at once, focus on the fundamental problems first. A working network with security holes, performance problems, etc can be tweaked and developed, but a theoretical network with theoretical problems is...just that.

    I don't know about you but I really don't want to base my code on "7 out of 10 dentists recommend..." than you very much.
    Of course not. You're a literate professional, use the RFC's. Quite a few are linked on the wikipedia page, and if there is stuff that's left out of there, the RFC's will reference other RFCs. They are not very entertaining, but they are very specific.
    Last edited by MK27; 12-05-2011 at 11:24 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Well... this started out with "How am I going to do this?" and has devolved to "Am I going to do this at all?"....

    Seriously, I've perused the wiki pages, read over some of the RFCs and I'm just as pleased as punch that it's all so simple for you.

    For me it's not...

    For example: I enabled ipv6 on my windows 7 machines so I could experiment with things like dns lookups and pinging them... and I've already had people trying to connect in from the WAN side of my router... Apparently it just passes ipv6 right through without even looking at it. Not Nice.... So I had to go back and disable it all again.

    Really... if this is a sign of things to come...
    Last edited by CommonTater; 12-05-2011 at 11:39 AM.

  6. #21
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    I'm confused. What are you expecting and what does "passing it right through" mean?
    Keep in mind that IPv6 support in routers today is limited at best. While they work with IPv6 traffic, DHCPv6, DNSv6 and all that stuff doesn't always work. If you want this to work reliably, I would recommend an enterprise router or simply a server.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    The discussion that caused my initial questions went like this...

    Client: "How much is it going to cost for you to update your code to the new IPv6?"
    Me: "I'm not sure, let me have a day or two and I'll get back to you..."

    To self: "Ok lets see what we can learn..."
    5 days later: "what a #$%@#^@%^ mess!"

    Client: "Well any progress?"
    Me: "None."

    Just to close this out.
    Thanks everyone for the help.

    I've made my decisions...

    Email to client:
    "I've decided not to do anything about this until I'm convinced that IPv6 is a better option than what we're currently using; and right now I'm not. I recommend you stay with your IPv4 systems, at least in-house until such time as IPv4 stops working altogether. Hopefully by then IPv6 --and my understaning of it-- will have progressed to the state where the changeover will be painless."

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