Like Tree6Likes

Visual C++ 2010 Express - difference from 2008?

This is a discussion on Visual C++ 2010 Express - difference from 2008? within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; It seems that VC++ 2010 Express is exclusively an evaluation edition unlike VC++ 2008 Express. Can projects made with 2008 ...

  1. #1
    Math wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    582

    Visual C++ 2010 Express - difference from 2008?

    It seems that VC++ 2010 Express is exclusively an evaluation edition unlike VC++ 2008 Express. Can projects made with 2008 Express be released whereas they cannot with 2010 Express? I'm leaning toward reverting back to 2008 Express (or even 2010 Express) for this reason but I would like clarification.
    High elevation is the best elevation. The higher, the better the view!
    My computer: XP Pro SP3, 3.4 GHz i7-2600K CPU (OC'd to 4 GHz), 4 GB DDR3 RAM, X-Fi Platinum sound, GeForce 460, 1920x1440 resolution, 1250 GB HDD space, Visual C++ 2008 Express

  2. #2
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,596
    AFAIK the only difference between 2008 amd 2010 is that 2010 uses WPF for the interface and 2008 used Windows forms. You should be able to make programs in 2010 just as you did in 2008 and they both allow you to create WPF applications. The downside of the express editions is they do not have nearly as much multi-threaded debugging support and they do not come with MFC. They also do not allow you to have solution folders (that contain multiple solutions) in your solution unlike the professional editions. If you import a solution that has these into the express editions they will fail to load them. I'm also not sure that the express editions come with a resource editor and if they do it is most likely a very dumbed down version. They also link differently but that should not affect your ability to use either of them.

    This page lists some of the clear differences between the two.
    http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudi...al-cpp-express
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 07-28-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Math wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    582
    The only reference I don't see is whether or not I can sell things made with Express editions. I don't know what WPF or MFC are though. I don't see any point in having solutions within solutions.

    I actually don't need much. The only programs I've ever made all have just one thread (according to Windows Task Manager). I don't know much about threads and I have no idea how to make more. I don't have a 64-bit system so I have no way to develop for such systems and thus I don't care for that. The only resource thing I could make use of is the version number indication when you look at a program's properties (right-click on the EXE and choose "properties"). This is of very low importance though for my needs so I can otherwise go completely without it. As long as I have the step-by-step debugger, can use 64-bit integers, and have access to things like GetAsyncKeyState, AlphaBlend, or timeGetTime (these are functions in typical Windows libraries), I'm happy. I otherwise don't have much need for debugging - the simplistic and direct coding method I use makes it easy to find most bugs. Some of the terms used on that page I have no idea what they are (e.g. ATL, MFC, OpenMP, among several others that the express edition doesn't have).

    Thanks though. I'm still thinking of sticking with 2008 Express for a while. Question is, why is registration required? Also, is there a way I can get the full installer file without downloading only a downloader? I find it annoying that you only get a downloader and, once the download is done, the actual installer is nowhere to be found.

    Another question I have is do the higher editions provide greater execution speed or is that solely limited by the one making the program itself?
    High elevation is the best elevation. The higher, the better the view!
    My computer: XP Pro SP3, 3.4 GHz i7-2600K CPU (OC'd to 4 GHz), 4 GB DDR3 RAM, X-Fi Platinum sound, GeForce 460, 1920x1440 resolution, 1250 GB HDD space, Visual C++ 2008 Express

  4. #4
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,705
    Question is, why is registration required?
    I suspect Microsoft doesn't want you to pirate their software, even if it is just the trial ware.

    Also, is there a way I can get the full installer file without downloading only a downloader?
    It's obviously there, and hidden, but not gotten without more effort than it's worth. I think the reason Microsoft in particular has moved to a dropkit system is so that they can offer the product they have to all the Windows versions they support -- and using something like Genuine Windows Verification to prevent contributing to allowing pirates to use it -- without making the links to all the versions available and having the interested party choose.

    Plus, you might have to download a few different things anyway depending on the type of install you want, so they probably see it as efficient.

    the higher editions provide greater execution speed or is that solely limited by the one making the program itself?
    Higher as in version or edition: such as 2008 versus 2010 or Express versus Pro? You could get two different answers. I don't think Express has a crippled compiler if that is what you mean. It may have a crippled IDE, or cripple the build process (in the ways it isn't standardized) but if people get the idea that the compiler sucks it would not sell.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 07-29-2011 at 02:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Around 8.3 light-minutes from the Sun
    Posts
    1,866
    Quote Originally Posted by ulillillia View Post
    The only reference I don't see is whether or not I can sell things made with Express editions.
    There are no license restrictions with selling software you make with Express Editions. You do have to register to get support for remote databasing, but that registration is free. Additionally, an important note is the media player plugin does require a license and is very expensive (well, unless you are a company or independently wealthy). The main differences have been pointed out by Virtual Ace above.
    Quote Originally Posted by anduril462 View Post
    Now, please, for the love of all things good and holy, think about what you're doing! Don't just run around willy-nilly, coding like a drunk two-year-old....
    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    ..... Just don't be surprised when I say you aren't using standard C anymore, and as such,are off in your own little universe that I will completely disregard.
    Warning: Some or all of my posted code may be non-standard and as such should not be used and in no case looked at.

  6. #6
    Math wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    582
    What is remote databasing? I don't use databases nor the Internet. I do use BMP, TGA, and either WAV or OGG files though but those aren't technically databases. Could WAV or OGG files be played without the need of a license (provided, of course, they're of my own creation or in the public domain (GPL))? If no license is needed for these, then I don't have any problems.

    As to the downloading part, the type of install is always the same. I have no need for Silverlight or that other item so I inevitably get the same files each time anyway. Besides, what if, later on down the road, I can no longer get VC++ 2008 and I don't want to upgrade either? Sometimes, I find upgrades more of a downgrade (such as my case with The GIMP for all versions after 2.2.17).

    As to the speed question, there is a difference between version and edition. VC++ 2008 is version 9. VC++ 2010 is version 10. I'd expect version 10 to be faster. Editions are different - VC++ 2008 Standard is a higher edition than VC++ 2008 Express. In short, what was I asking was that, does VC++ 2008 Standard output faster code than VC++ 2008 Express because it's a higher edition?
    High elevation is the best elevation. The higher, the better the view!
    My computer: XP Pro SP3, 3.4 GHz i7-2600K CPU (OC'd to 4 GHz), 4 GB DDR3 RAM, X-Fi Platinum sound, GeForce 460, 1920x1440 resolution, 1250 GB HDD space, Visual C++ 2008 Express

  7. #7
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,705
    Besides, what if, later on down the road, I can no longer get VC++ 2008 and I don't want to upgrade either?
    The same thing you do with everything else: Buy it. You can probably get it cheap at a college bookstore if you are a student.

  8. #8
    'Allo, 'Allo, Allo
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    611
    Or you download the ISO so you're not at the mercy of the MS download servers. Considering they're still hosting NT4 service packs, I don't think you're in any danger of them pulling the plug.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Around 8.3 light-minutes from the Sun
    Posts
    1,866
    Quote Originally Posted by ulillillia View Post
    What is remote databasing? I don't use databases nor the Internet.
    If you don't know, don't worry about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ulillillia View Post
    I do use BMP, TGA, and either WAV or OGG files though but those aren't technically databases. Could WAV or OGG files be played without the need of a license (provided, of course, they're of my own creation or in the public domain (GPL))?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ulillillia View Post
    Besides, what if, later on down the road, I can no longer get VC++ 2008 and I don't want to upgrade either? Sometimes, I find upgrades more of a downgrade (such as my case with The GIMP for all versions after 2.2.17).
    This is going to happen, M$ has a penchant for dropping support as does the rest of the technological community. Can you still easily find a tape player? Look, assuming you are getting into a technology field, there is one rule you need to understand: adapt or be prepared to be left behind.

    As for whether or not it is better? That will be up to you to decide; it is a matter of opinion, I would say yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ulillillia View Post
    As to the speed question, there is a difference between version and edition. VC++ 2008 is version 9. VC++ 2010 is version 10. I'd expect version 10 to be faster. Editions are different - VC++ 2008 Standard is a higher edition than VC++ 2008 Express. In short, what was I asking was that, does VC++ 2008 Standard output faster code than VC++ 2008 Express because it's a higher edition?
    This has already been answered for you. But I will make a definitive answer for you, first we need to review some things:

    1. You don't know what MFC is.
    2. You don't know what WPF is.
    3. You aren't using the internet (not sure if you know how), or databasing (not sure if you know how)
    4. You don't know what compiler optimization is, and it sounds like you aren't crystal on how compilers work.
    5. <The list goes on>

    So, does it output faster code?

    You won't notice the difference and it would appear it is going to be a long time before it even becomes a concern for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by anduril462 View Post
    Now, please, for the love of all things good and holy, think about what you're doing! Don't just run around willy-nilly, coding like a drunk two-year-old....
    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    ..... Just don't be surprised when I say you aren't using standard C anymore, and as such,are off in your own little universe that I will completely disregard.
    Warning: Some or all of my posted code may be non-standard and as such should not be used and in no case looked at.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,596
    I otherwise don't have much need for debugging - the simplistic and direct coding method I use makes it easy to find most bugs.
    Famous last words. Explain simplistic and direct coding because I'm all ears.
    AndrewHunter and Elysia like this.

  11. #11
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,612
    Biggest difference you'll see? Version 10 supports a subset of C++11.
    That is, if you use C++.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,596
    Biggest difference you'll see? Version 10 supports a subset of C++11.
    Indeed it does. Forgot about that difference in my list.

    I think the GUI changes are quite noticeable so I wouldn't say the C++ 11 stuff is the only difference he will see. Another difference: C++/CLI will actually have Intellisense unlike 2008 where 'it didn't make it in'.

    I hope they fix these things in 2010 that annoy me to no end in 2008:
    • Cancelling a build beyond some unknown 'point of no return' causes a DLL or EXE to become an invalid Windows image which requires a clean and rebuild
    • The infamous mt.exe problem where some link or build thread exited but did not unlock the file causing MSVS to fail the build. Usually requires a restart of MSVS.
    • When changing the project or solution MSVS 2008 attempts to write the file but does not give you a 'Save' option which means I must manually check the file out instead of being able to use explorer plug-ins to check the file out. It should be noted that this is the only file that MSVS does this on. The rest of the files it will say are read only and give you options to make it writeable or save as... which leads to the explorer. Problem did not exist in 2003 or 2005.
    • In muliple project / multiple solution solutions MSVS gets the include paths all wrong. This means you must manually specify the paths and ignore their suggestions since they are wrong or open the specific project in question and make changes to it to fix the problem. Sometimes you can clearly see an include path requires 3 levels to move up in order to work but MSVS's little help or Intellisense will say that 3 levels is too far or incorrect. This is a very annoying problem. 2003 and 2005 did not have this issue.
    • Give devs the ability to lock filters - IE: you cannot drag new files into or out of said filter. I cannot remember how many times I've been dragging the mouse around, accidentally clicked a file and attempted to drag it somewhere. The only saving grace here is that if you do not have your project file checked out it will warn you that the move cannot be made and you can cancel it. Locked filters would be a definite plus.
    • Change the editor interface so more open files can be shown or browsed through at the top. I miss 2003's left / right arrows that would browse through open files. The massive drop down list that was added in 2005 and 2008 is terrible.
    • Forward and back still do not work as expected and often times lead you off into the weeds.
    • Intellisense for C++ is still slow and often gets confused or lost. You have a 50 / 50 chance of whether or not it will actuallly work or not. NCB's still get corrupted and Intellisense updates at the worst times - sometimes right in the middle of a build.
    • Pre-build, Pre-link, and Post-build events often fire at the wrong times.
    • Make the working directory part of the vcproj instead of the suo file. Not sure why working directory is considered a user option when it affects paths and can break a build.
    • Please, please, please do not auto-deprecate the CRT for every new project. Automatically add the defines in the preprocessor so the compiler will shut up for new projects.
    • #defines often do not highlight correctly 9 times out of 10 to indicate what is defined and what will be compiled
    • Please STOP syntax highlighting C# specific key-words in C++ projects. Event is not a keyword in C++.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 07-30-2011 at 10:55 AM.
    Mario F. likes this.

  13. #13
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,612
    They did significantly improve IntelliSense for 2010.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #14
    Math wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    582
    Quote Originally Posted by VirtualAce View Post
    Famous last words. Explain simplistic and direct coding because I'm all ears.
    I take the most obvious approach to implementing a new feature or design aspect into a program. I don't bother at all with optimizing my code. This does have an effect on the execution speed, but at least it helps me find bugs quicker and easier.
    High elevation is the best elevation. The higher, the better the view!
    My computer: XP Pro SP3, 3.4 GHz i7-2600K CPU (OC'd to 4 GHz), 4 GB DDR3 RAM, X-Fi Platinum sound, GeForce 460, 1920x1440 resolution, 1250 GB HDD space, Visual C++ 2008 Express

  15. #15
    Math wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    582
    For reference, I can program pretty much everything I need for my game and many other projects I have (except 3D ones). I have no need for the internet and I have no need for databases either.

    Builds for me are otherwise an instant so I have almost no time to cancel. 3 seconds is about the longest I have for builds (it may be 2 seconds now with my higher-powered CPU). I haven't experienced the mt.exe problem. To change projects, extremely rare that I ever do, I just open up another instance of MSVC. I also always save before changing or doing a test run. I don't see what the point of having multiple solutions is so I'm apparently immune to that part as I only have one solution per project. I don't use filters (didn't know they existed). I put all of my code in one file, with the exception of certain headers with a highly repetitive nature (a long list of defines for example). I don't use C++ and I otherwise haven't had much trouble with intellisense. The closest I get to troubles with intellisense is not seeing the variable type when I put the mouse over it, even if I have it correct (e.g. having SampleVar instead of SampleVars wouldn't cause anything to appear even changing to SampleVars sometimes still doesn't). What do you mean by "forward and back"? I haven't encountered problems with pre-build, pre-link, and post-build events that I'm aware of (could this be why, by simply adding another variable, all drawing stops and adding still more variables makes drawing resume again?). I only need to have the "CRT_SECURE_NO_DEPRECATE" type thing only once for sprintf and the related. Once added, I don't have to change it again. Defines work without problems for me that I've seen.
    High elevation is the best elevation. The higher, the better the view!
    My computer: XP Pro SP3, 3.4 GHz i7-2600K CPU (OC'd to 4 GHz), 4 GB DDR3 RAM, X-Fi Platinum sound, GeForce 460, 1920x1440 resolution, 1250 GB HDD space, Visual C++ 2008 Express

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. C project in Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Express?
    By alexbcg in forum C Programming
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-08-2010, 01:39 PM
  2. Visual Studio 2008/2010 Plugin
    By threahdead in forum Windows Programming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-21-2010, 08:44 AM
  3. Visual C++ 2010 express problems
    By dnj23 in forum Windows Programming
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-10-2010, 06:16 AM
  4. Visual Studio 2010 Express vs 2005 Standard
    By micahharwell in forum Windows Programming
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 07:45 AM
  5. visual c++ 2008 express
    By manzoor in forum C++ Programming
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-07-2008, 04:31 AM

Tags for this Thread


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21