New: Google public DNS

This is a discussion on New: Google public DNS within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Mario F. edit: BTW, I know it's totally OT and i'm hijacking the thread, but did you ...

  1. #16
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    edit: BTW, I know it's totally OT and i'm hijacking the thread, but did you guys know google launched a free public DNS service? How about that for yet another way for them to map our web usage? Do no evil, or do it with all the best of intentions?
    Is this really evil? I mean, the telemarketers who bug me during the day are the net result of this kind of information gathering (and the fact that you must pay the phone company to unlist your number), and I don't appreciate them (what they have is never of interest to me, it seems*) but that's no more or less evil than ANY form of capitalism. The guy who owns a flower store, exploits people through wage labour, encourages agro-monoculture, excessive use of pesticides and herbicides, then unnecessary traffic for trucking his product, contributes to the commercialization/consumerization of urban landscapes, etc. etc., is "doing evil with the best of all intentions" too. ALL capitalist enterprise has this form BECAUSE of the incentive and the state of the competition. I would not single google out -- in fact they are probably way more harmless than most large corporations.

    Also, they may be doing a lot of people a favour. I just registered a domain name, and my vps provider, which is a small outfit, said, "Well, we don't normally provide DNS resolution for the unmanaged VPS accounts -- but I'll do it for you today." Evidently they have determined that is a hassle for them, so as google says this will "Help reduce the load on ISPs' DNS servers."

    It's an efficiency thing.

    * like, some people are just baffled you don't want a daily paper delivered to your door for free, for a limited time! no obligation! These people have not lived on the west coast of Canada and seen the moonscapes there that are the real expense of free daily trash delivery...I'm happy newspapers are going down, ALL of them. The sooner the better.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #17
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    People are too paranoid.
    We should not care if we're being monitored. It's our business, and they have nothing to do with it, right?
    So long as it doesn't interfere with us in some way, than I am all for monitoring.

    It would be great if google picked up my habits and started providing me with interesting and relative ads instead of boring, intrusive ads. Win-win situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #18
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    The whole point of monitoring anything is to eventually interfere.

    That said, I don't find DNS to be a personal process at all. I'm not the type of person that visits ultra-obscure web sites where no one can know my terrible secret. In fact, even if Google figures out I read shoujo manga and have an ad for that, I'll never see it because I just block them.

  4. #19
    Dae
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    It would be great if google picked up my habits and started providing me with interesting and relative ads instead of boring, intrusive ads. Win-win situation.
    Use GMail? They base their ads on your drafts/send mail/received mail. Funny watching them change based on what I last wrote (games, then programming, then servers, etc.)

    I don't think ads are ever win, but that's just me. I've never clicked an ad in my life (besides a mis-click).
    Warning: Have doubt in anything I post.

    GCC 4.5, Boost 1.40, Code::Blocks 8.02, Ubuntu 9.10 010001000110000101100101

  5. #20
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    In fact, even if Google figures out I read shoujo manga and have an ad for that, I'll never see it because I just block them.
    Which is one of the reasons why I can't stand Chrome. I got so accustomed to a quiet eye pleasing experience in the net, that opening any webpage on Chrome or IE becomes an instant headache with all the eye-throbbing and visually offensive ad content. It's like getting hit by a flashlight while I'm enjoying a nice romantic candle-light dinner with my browser.

    It should be interesting how will Chrome position itself with add-on content when it becomes fully supported. Both in terms of performance (the usual meaningless which-is-the-faster-engine nonsense), but also how happy will Google be to learn that the vast majority of their users will be hiding google-analytics and googlesyndication. As for the DNS thing, I plan to use it on my laptop because I do have a few problems with my wireless provider DNS servers and other public DNSs haven't been satisfactory. But, this is funny:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq.html#sla
    What is the SLA for the service?
    As this is an experimental launch, we are not providing an SLA for this service at this time.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 12-05-2009 at 10:08 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #21
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    The whole point of monitoring anything is to eventually interfere.
    Of course, but interfere with whom?
    Thieves, burglars, law breakers or just plain old vanilla people who has done nothing wrong? If the former, it's okay, if it's the later, it's not okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dae View Post
    Use GMail? They base their ads on your drafts/send mail/received mail. Funny watching them change based on what I last wrote (games, then programming, then servers, etc.)

    I don't think ads are ever win, but that's just me. I've never clicked an ad in my life (besides a mis-click).
    Yup, I use it all the time.
    Never said the ads were perfect. Just that it would be nice if I could get commercial about stuff I like instead of blocking all of them. It's a win for the company who sends out the commercial, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #22
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    I never click on ads either* and I sometimes feel guilty about it. Remember, this board would not exist without advertising, and they only get paid when someone clicks on the banner -- you get nothing for just displaying it.

    Also, if you'd prefer certain kinds of things, DO click on those -- that'll for sure affect your profile.**

    *my one exception is microsoft, even tho I have no interest in their products, this means they have to dish out 5 cents to help pay for the net, which is good, and they can afford it obviously.
    **I see nothing but MS ads all day sometimes. In my google profile, I am a total windows aficionado. I probably cost them at least $50 in click thrus this year.
    Last edited by MK27; 12-05-2009 at 12:53 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  8. #23
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Of course, but interfere with whom?
    Thieves, burglars, law breakers or just plain old vanilla people who has done nothing wrong? If the former, it's okay, if it's the later, it's not okay.
    I don't want to start an argument, exactly. If they do monitor DNS resolutions, they're most likely getting random IP's, but people who use Chrome with everything on probably are a different group of people who are identifiable, and Google can use that to serve up better ads or whatever. I'm not accusing Google. Doing this responsibly depends on a couple things: in the first place, how the information is collected can cross legal boundaries. It's also naive to expect that companies will always do "good things" with what they collect, and negligent to let them do whatever they want with some kinds of information as a "trade secret" or the like. People you called paranoid are just paying attention more than most people. Protecting the privacy of the citizen is important but it only works after people complain. No one will care about it for you.

  9. #24
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    People you called paranoid are just paying attention more than most people. Protecting the privacy of the citizen is important but it only works after people complain. No one will care about it for you.
    IMO the opposite is true: if you make an issue of civil liberties, etc, the reactionary/conservative right is more likely to take a stand against it in support of whatever totalitarian principle (eg, "corporate rights") they can find.

    You can now have your internet connection cut in Britain without trial, purely based on accusation. In fact, a pub supplying free wifi to it's customers was just fined £8000 because someone there "unlawfully downloaded copyrighted material".

    Pub 'fined £8k' for Wi-Fi copyright infringement - ZDNet.co.uk

    Now, this may seem like a different issue, but if push came to shove, the government and corporations will play the same line on statistics gathering: not that your privacy needs protection, but that their right to gather information needs protection.

    So keep your mouth shut. At least now it is ambiguous, and you could sue under certain circumstances, etc. But if there is enough hoopla, that possibility will be squashed and so will your potential "right to privacy".
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  10. #25
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    So keep your mouth shut. At least now it is ambiguous, and you could sue under certain circumstances, etc. But if there is enough hoopla, that possibility will be squashed and so will your potential "right to privacy".
    I made a post on the internet, get real.

  11. #26
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    Doing this responsibly depends on a couple things: in the first place, how the information is collected can cross legal boundaries. It's also naive to expect that companies will always do "good things" with what they collect, and negligent to let them do whatever they want with some kinds of information as a "trade secret" or the like. People you called paranoid are just paying attention more than most people. Protecting the privacy of the citizen is important but it only works after people complain. No one will care about it for you.
    But here's the thing. We go out in the world every day. We do our work. We do our studies. We do our fun. Whatever.
    We don't think about what we do or who is watching or what people is thinking. We think about what we must or want to do. That's all.
    Later, when tourists have taken photos of the lands around us and we have somehow gotten a place in it or some other group of friends start talking about us in some way, we don't care.
    Someone sees you as a pretty boy/girl and glances a few times in your direction while walking by. You don't care.
    Or some people are watching that you don't do anything stupid. Or there is some equipment that records how many bypassers there are on that area every day.
    We go about our everyday lives, caring only about what we do, and not about what others think of what we're doing.
    So no privacy there.

    The same thing is now happening on the internet. And there is nothing wrong with it. Those who do think this kind of thing is wrong is paranoid.
    Now, this can have drawbacks, of course. When people start stalking you, it has gone too far. The same can happen on the net, but who says it doesn't happen IRL too?
    Surveillance can help reduce crime, as well, so I say we should embrace it.
    What I do, is no one other's business.
    Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #27
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dae View Post
    Hey, at least my sound works this version around (Ubuntu).



    If they come out with 9.14 or something, I'll change it. 9.1 (the number) doesn't necessarily mean it's rounded. 9.1 = 9.10 = 9.100 = 9.1000 = 9.10000.
    Not in versioning it doesn't. 9.10 != 9.1

    9.10 is the version after 9.9, i.e. it's nine point ten

    Traditionally there are 3 numbers denoting versioning, but the third is the build number, which many applications simply leave off to avoid confusing lusers that wouldn't know the difference.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  13. #28
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But here's the thing. tl;dr blablabla the internet is actually a society
    Whatever man, that's barely meaningful at all. Billboards and commercials of the TV or radio variety don't intrude on my habits and personal life to make more meaningful ads. If other people are worried about that happening on the internet, let them be worried and don't call them crazy, that's all I'm saying. Frankly the internet works just fine without ALL MARKETING ALL THE TIME.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 12-06-2009 at 12:31 PM.

  14. #29
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    If other people are worried about that happening on the internet, let them be worried and don't call them crazy, that's all I'm saying. Frankly the internet works just fine without ALL MARKETING ALL THE TIME.
    Well, so how about your Hamlet quote then ("There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.")?

    Of course, Shakespeare is being facetious here -- Hamlet often seems superficially thoughtful, but in fact, his judgement is not very sound and he has some glaring moral flaws to his character. Which a person like that would want to believe something like this.

    So let's presume something might be bad (for you, for life the universe and everything), even if you don't think anything of it. I kind of agree about the net BUT, having spent a certain amount of time on web-dev forums, having a few friends in the industry, and doing a little bit of work in it myself (in fact, I got invited to the big Web 2.0 conference in Manhattan here a few weeks ago), I would say the peculiar ideals of many web developers is a far bigger "threat" to the state of the net than advertising actually is.

    In reality, web advertising is much less intrusive than it is in most other media. Generally, it's flash, and there's lots of ways to disable and block it if you choose. For that reason, advertisers are (generally) NOT going to simply pay to advertise the way they will just pay for a TV commercial, tho there is a chance everyone will just ignore the commercial. They want evidence, and efficiency, and collecting stats is part of that.

    Now, I dunno if the mods here are paid, but in any case, cboard incurs some expense, for someone, somewhere. I am sure we could all kick in a monthly fee or something instead, but that system will be worse -- how many different forums do you go to for advice? Would you pay for all of them? How 'bout one central paid forum for everything, like "experts-exchange"?

    Or, you could just have a general account, linked to paypal or something, that takes 25 cents an hour on paid forums or something. Do you think that will lead to less information gathering? And now you will have a tiered net, restricting access to people with bank accounts/credit cards and perhaps only in certain countries? Say goodbye to library terminals, they'll be useless. Great!

    Do you think your bank and credit card company, etc, aren't doing this already, no questions asked? Google may seem greedy, but I think they may well have MITIGATED the force of unrestrained capitalism on the net. For example, the banner advertising system prevented the rise of monolithic "TV network" style enterprises that would be funded by advertising "exclusively on our sites". It could easily have ended up much, much worse.
    Last edited by MK27; 12-06-2009 at 01:54 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  15. #30
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Surveillance can help reduce crime, as well, so I say we should embrace it.
    What I do, is no one other's business.
    Right?
    Or increase it depending on your definition of crime and to some extent regardless of that definition. I'll do without a heaping helping of big brother even if it means little sister steals my pokemon cards and gets away with it thank you very much.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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