Someone's advice on here broke my PC!

This is a discussion on Someone's advice on here broke my PC! within the Tech Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; I expect it to run out of the box, no special downloads, no foreknowledge whatsoever, just as if I were ...

  1. #31
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    I expect it to run out of the box, no special downloads, no foreknowledge whatsoever, just as if I were installing any version of Windows
    You don't even need to have a serial number.

    User friendliness is a good thing, but Linux is NOT claiming to be "easier" than Windows. It's for people who know what they are doing, and need finer control.

    Ubuntu is trying to cover the middle-ground, and I think it's doing a fine job. With more "easiness" there goes less control. It's a trade-off. How much control do you get with the Windows installer? I guess you get to enter the serial number...

    For a (almost) computer-illiterate person, Windows is easier to use than Linux. No one is trying to deny that.

    Development environment is a matter of personal preference. GCC, for example, lists Linux as a primary target, and Windows (MinGW) as a secondary target (bugs not fixed as quickly, etc). As a result, it's more robust on Linux, and have things like multilib (32-bit/64-bit with a compiler switch). The GCC build system (for compiling the compiler) also heavily rely on POSIX features, and follows UNIX conventions (configure and make).

  2. #32
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    Nah, I was saying Ubuntu was problematic 'cause I was able to delete the OS through the package manager when I tried deleting GCC xP well, I ain't saying Ubuntu is bad, just that I think they should not allow you to delete the system just like that xP
    Currently research OpenGL

  3. #33
    and the hat of copycat stevesmithx's Avatar
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    For newbies and others who want just an application in linux Portable Ubuntu could be an option.
    It's not fast as live CD. But could be less hassle than setting up a multi-boot partition.
    I like ubuntu in general except the default Totem movie player that comes with it which sucks in my opinion.
    Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted
    - Albert Einstein.


    No programming language is perfect. There is not even a single best language; there are only languages well suited or perhaps poorly suited for particular purposes.
    - Herbert Mayer

  4. #34
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    Nah, I was saying Ubuntu was problematic 'cause I was able to delete the OS through the package manager when I tried deleting GCC xP well, I ain't saying Ubuntu is bad, just that I think they should not allow you to delete the system just like that xP
    It should warn you loudly about removing important system packages...

    I guess you could've just clicked "OK" all the way like on Windows.

    That unfortunately won't get you far on Linux .

  5. #35
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    You don't even need to have a serial number.

    User friendliness is a good thing, but Linux is NOT claiming to be "easier" than Windows. It's for people who know what they are doing, and need finer control.
    Well I hate to burst your bubble, but I can't require all my customers to be cyber-geeks. When I try a new OS I have to have their level of expertise in mind, not my own. If I want an OS that gives finer control than Windows, Ill write it.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  6. #36
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    Of course not. That's what cross-platform APIs are for.

  7. #37
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Of course not. That's what cross-platform APIs are for.
    which of course require the customer to install that package, while WinAPI requires no additional packages be installed. I mean i hate to keep playing the devils advocate here, but we are talking about a product (windows) that costs $150 a copy and holds significant market share against a product (linux) that is basically free. Obviously MS is doing something right. The fact is the general population, and by general I mean joe public and most of my customer base, really see linux as little more than an overcomplicated hobby OS.
    Last edited by abachler; 04-04-2009 at 11:58 PM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  8. #38
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    Not sure about other toolkits, but Qt for example, would just require a dll to be shipped with the app.

    Yeah, MS is certainly doing something right. Almost as simple as OS X and not as expensive.

    IMHO, a large part of it is snowball effect (inverse of chicken and egg?!), though. For a very long time, Windows was the only choice. Linux was not ready for desktop usage until just a few years ago. At that time, Windows already had a lot of apps and such, so people use it, so developers write for it...

    That's why people say Linux will skyrocket once it hits about 15% market share. How long will it take to reach that, though, no one knows.

    That's just like firefox. Once it reached a significant marketshare, web devs will take it seriously and test their websites in it, and that makes firefox more attractive for users (since websites actually work)... and now firefox is almost if not already taking over IE.

  9. #39
    CSharpener vart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    and now firefox is almost if not already taking over IE.
    Not in a world

    But in Europe Firefox is most popular browser (about 35%) and beats by 1 or 2 percent next browser - IE7


    PS. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10...=2547-1_3-0-20

    Here is - I found the link where I read it
    Last edited by vart; 04-05-2009 at 01:02 AM.
    The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time,
    the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

  10. #40
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    Considering the fact that Windows comes with IE, and >80% of computer users use Windows, and >50(?)% don't know what a browser is, I think that's quite impressive.

    I doubt it will go any higher without Microsoft bundling Firefox with Windows.

  11. #41
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    I just use IE since it comes with Windows. Why bother installing another browser when I already have one?
    Plus a lot of websites just don't look right in FireFox.

    As for Linux vs. Windows... I'm with abachler here; Linux may be more customizable, but Windows just works. There's also the problem of finding Linux drivers for hardware... If it's old, it's not to hard to find a driver, but if it's brand new, it usually only has a Windows driver.
    I also find the quality of Open Source software in general to be pretty bad; maybe not in the number of bugs, but in the ease of use, the aesthetic appeal, number and type of features, and most of all the documentation.
    "I am probably the laziest programmer on the planet, a fact with which anyone who has ever seen my code will agree." - esbo, 11/15/2008

    "the internet is a scary place to be thats why i dont use it much." - billet, 03/17/2010

  12. #42
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    Plus a lot of websites just don't look right in FireFox.
    Even now? ALL the sites I visit look right in Firefox.

    As for hardware, MOST do work. Especially those from major brands. NVIDIA for example, has good Linux driver (only in binary). I agree Windows has better hardware support, but that's not really Linux's problem. Linux needs to supply its own drivers most of the time, while Windows gets them from hardware manufacturers. Linux does limit the selection of hardware, but the available selection is still pretty good. For example, I have never considered ATI video cards for this reason... Just need to do research before purchasing hardware.

    As for "quality" of software, I guess the problem is they are not "user oriented". They don't need to sell their programs, so they tend to not focus on user-friendliness as much. They write the programs for their own use. On the bright side, the programmers create them because they enjoy doing it. As a result, feature requests are more likely to be fulfilled, bugs tend to be fixed faster (you can always fix it yourself, too, if it's something simple, or if you have a lot of time). I have personally contacted a few developers of open source programs, and got them to implement features for me, or answer my questions. This kind of direct user-developer interaction is not usually seen in commercial software. That's why I think open source is just "friendlier".

    That said, there are quite a few large-scale commercial "quality" programs, though. For example, ones I use - Linux (>80% of supercomputers run Linux, and at least 70% of servers run Linux or BSD, has large market share in embedded stuff, too), GCC, OpenOffice, Firefox/Thunderbird, GIMP, GNU Octave (open source clone of MATLAB).

  13. #43
    CSharpener vart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    I just use IE since it comes with Windows. Why bother installing another browser when I already have one?
    Speed? Sometimes I'm ready to go to sleep for several minutes while IE is loading the site. But only sometimes...
    The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time,
    the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Based on information on some who are working on the kernel at Microsoft I would not recommend using it as a primary OS just yet. I'm not saying the beta kicks the crap out of XP and the other horrible flop of an OS but it is not yet ready to be a primary OS. Wait till it goes gold and then have at it. It is not rocket science to understand that using a beta OS as your primary OS is probably not the smartest choice in the universe.

    Be patient. I, for one, am planning on going out and getting Windows 7 the day it releases. Vista (there I said it) sits on my shelf never to be opened again even if they patch it a billion times.
    Don't be fooled. Windows 7 is not just Windows Vista 2.0. It may look like Vista but it is not Vista by a long shot.
    If you have insider information, then you should know that Win7 is just an evolution of Vista. Nothing fancy, whatever they call it. It's a minor upgrade.
    The truth is that the have made a few improvements, such as built-in Bluetooth and upgraded Sound system, but otherwise, they just took Vista and optimized the code.
    Whatever anyone says, it IS Vista 2.0. And to otherwise contrary belief, while Vista was/is a failure, it has become a solid operating system today. It's biggest failure is its resource hunger and (which Win7 also shares) its UAC "security" feature. Which is rather broken, even today in Win7 (in fact, even more so today).

    Be that way if you want, but saying that Win7 isn't Vista is just pure bias.
    Everyone will have another chance to try Vista once the RC comes out. Until then, I'm going to stick with Win7 as my primary operating system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #45
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vart View Post
    Speed? Sometimes I'm ready to go to sleep for several minutes while IE is loading the site. But only sometimes...
    That sounds more like server issues.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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