How to add copy protection to a software?

[tabstop]

In either case, both sides agreed to the purchase, so I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion.

But no, I don't consider it stealing. I consider it not following through with a purchase agreement.

So I've got a program I need written. I promise I'll pay you for it after it's done.

Somehow I get the feeling I'm going to get the opportunity to vote for rob in the near future.

[robwhit]

> If it's hard for you to adapt the wording to the new realities, I suggest you give the issue some more thought.

"new realities"? I honestly don't know what you mean.

> Currently receiving pirated goods is generally considered stealing. You see the wording everywhere, in rental movies and in theaters for instance.

That's because it's catchy and grabs your attention. Notice that the whole message is "piracy is stealing", as if people didn't already think that way?

> So I've got a program I need written. I promise I'll pay you for it after it's done.

Neat-o. When can I start?

> Somehow I get the feeling I'm going to get the opportunity to vote for rob in the near future.

LOL.

[Mario F.]

"new realities"? I honestly don't know what you mean.

I'm pretty sure you do.
Language adapts -- as does the meaning of existing words and their application -- according to how the world develops around you. If you consider stealing the act of physically taking something from someone without their consent, you are staying behind. Definitely on what comes to software.

It's, unfortunately for you, pretty much irrelevant what you think of the act of downloading and using illegal software. If you were to do it it would be considered stealing, i'd risk, by the largest percentage of people in a position to judge the behavior, no matter how semantic you can get on the issue.

I'm however curious as to exactly what you call the act of downloading and using illegal software. Don't call it piracy please. You didn't make an illegal copy and put it up for distribution. You knowingly downloaded and used it.

[CornedBee]

At this point I should mention that, under some jurisdictions, the act of downloading software or music and using it is not actually illegal.

[Mario F.]

Precisely the reason I was careful to add the words ("and using"). In Portugal, for instance, it's not illegal to download illegal software. It's illegal to use that software or further distribute it.

[robwhit]

I'm pretty sure you do.
Language adapts -- as does the meaning of existing words and their application -- according to how the world develops around you. If you consider stealing the act of physically taking something from someone without their consent, you are staying behind. Definitely on what comes to software.

In other words, if I disagree with you, I'm wrong. If that's your only argument, I think you may be mistaking change for progress.

It's, unfortunately for you, pretty much irrelevant what you think of the act of downloading and using illegal software. If you were to do it it would be considered stealing, i'd risk, by the largest percentage of people in a position to judge the behavior, no matter how semantic you can get on the issue.

Of course, this is just unfounded hearsay. But even if it were true, you'd still be back at square one: what reasoning do you think they would use to support their views?

I'm however curious as to exactly what you call the act of downloading and using illegal software. Don't call it piracy please. You didn't make an illegal copy and put it up for distribution. You knowingly downloaded and used it.

I'd call it illegally downloading and using software. Why? Is that not good enough?

[h3ro]

Rob, just give up. You have lost

[robwhit]

> Rob, just give up. You have lost

I see no reason why I am wrong.

[tabstop]

I'd call it illegally downloading and using software. Why? Is that not good enough?

Would you be willing to call it "illegally acquiring software"? (Then you can explain why "stealing <X>" is not "illegally acquiring <X>".)

[robwhit]

Sure. Stealing is transferring possession of something from one to another without the permission of the former. Acquiring something only considers the side that gains; it does not consider the side that loses, if any. Illegally acquiring something is acquiring something illegally.

[Mario F.]

In other words, if I disagree with you, I'm wrong.

Pretty much so, yes.

Illegally acquiring something is acquiring something illegally.

... and is called stealing.

But anyway, it's obvious we aren't getting nowhere. Have fun.

[robwhit]

> Pretty much so, yes.

Then how do you learn?

> ... and is called stealing.

Not all illegally acquiring is stealing.

> But anyway, it's obvious we aren't getting nowhere. Have fun.

You too!

[Mario F.]

> Pretty much so, yes.

Then how do you learn?

I'm not sure I'm following you here. But you could start by doing what I suggested at first. Give your meaning a better thought.

Look at it this way...
I gather you don't object to the word piracy. And yet pirates were robbers at sea. Basically the society evolved the word to encompass a new meaning to a point that not agreeing with the word is really not the best argument. And can draw a smile or two.

Same goes for the word hacker. If before it meant a poor golf player, now it has a new meaning. Cracker, a wafer before, but now a bad person. Web, site, language (now also programming language), mouse, desktop, server...

[robwhit]

> I'm not sure I'm following you here.

If you argue by saying "I'm right you're wrong so there" then you never realize the parts where you are wrong since you're closed off to it. It seemed that you admitted to being closed off.

> Give your meaning a better thought.

I don't know what that means.

> Look at it this way...
> I gather you don't object to the word piracy. And yet pirates were robbers at sea. Basically the society evolved the word to encompass a new meaning to a point that not agreeing with the word is really not the best argument. And can draw a smile or two.

Well nobody really thinks that they are true pirates.

> Same goes for the word hacker. If before it meant a poor golf player, now it has a new meaning. Cracker, a wafer before, but now a bad person. Web, site, language (now also programming language), mouse, desktop, server...

Those are all similar by analogy. It's a totally different matter.

I object to calling it stealing because I don't think those people should be subject to unnecessary and/or inaccurate stigma.