Is anyone here a communist?
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Is anyone here a communist?
How 'bout adding another selection: Communism is a form of govornment and thus cannot be implicitly good or evil. Like any other tool its the user that defines it.
... okay... :rolleyes:
In theory, communism isn't a terrible idea, but in practice it won't work. Marx was too optimistic in his theories of a social utopia. As the old saying goes "Absolute power corrupts absolutley". Lenin and Stalin were essentially dictators. It may suprise some people to know, but Lenin actually set up a state police, much like the Gestapo, and often had people executed for no reason other than they disagreed with him. Stalin ruled with an iron fist, and millions were killed under his reigeme.Code:while (communism == theory)
return good_idea;
while (communism == practiced)
return bad_idea;
>No, Communism is bad. I stand for the US.
WTF ?
You US guys sure have problems. Communism is a form of government never tested yet. The US is a country.
To get it into your brains: It's not your enemy. It's not US vs communism. Get over it. That was last centuries propaganda. You are comparing apples to free speech. Thats two totally different things.
It's an Utopia of a perfect world. It will never happen. And anyone to proclaim the dream of work and happiness for all is a bad dream should go out into our nice capitalistic country and ask why there are people without job, without health-care, without home. Having a dream to help them all, how could that be bad ?
Failures to reach it brought a ton of misery. But that's not the point of your question here.
( no, I'm not a comunist... I just can't get it into my head how americans can be so indoctrinated. It's even worse that former warsaw pact states. )
Oh, another thing: Eastern Germany called itself German Democratic Republic. You would never hold democracy liable for what the dictators did there, would you ? So don't judge communism by how Russian or Chinese tyranies behaved.
>> Having a dream to help them all, how could that be bad ? <<
It's not and communism/marxism is not the only theory about helping people (socialism, social justice theory etc.). It was the Russian and US Cold-War era governments who were afraid of each other because both had mass stock piles of nuclear arms and both were trying to establish themselves as the dominant force in the northern hemisphere. Anti-communist/capitalist sentiments were played up by the governments of the time because it was good propaganda. However, both systems are flawed.
>>So don't judge communism by how Russian or Chinese tyranies behavedSo don't judge communism by how Russian or Chinese tyranies behaved<<
I was saying that these types of systems cannot work, not that they are themselves bad in theory.
> The US is a country.
Right, and as such has lots of people with lots of different views. Don't paint us all with the same brush...
WTF's up with the poll choices? "Marx is a god"? Jeez... I'm with l@d on this one. Basically anyone with any sort of real information on how government works will likely tell you the same thing.
>Don't paint us all with the same brush...
Yep, you're right, sorry :)
Ve vill not tolerate your excuses nvoigt!
No communist country has never been (IMHO), unless you feel that Soviet/Cuba/China/etc. was communist, in which case I'm pretty much against your utopia...
A true socialist state was close to it's perfection in Spain 1936-39 (al though it was black'n red, communists there weren't communists and anarchists weren't anarchists).
But, come on! Get over from the cold war; communist is in no means worse than the capitalist system here in the west. Only difference is, that we oppress people in the 3rd world and in communism they oppress their own people!
communism is great in theory, however in practice it pretty much fails.
Please note that the poll option was provided by someone who lives outside the United States.Quote:
Originally posted by nvoigt
>No, Communism is bad. I stand for the US.
WTF ?
The Cold War is Over, The US is no longer againt communist, we are againt goverments that treats it people inhumanly and are aggressers to greater evil. I would like to add that no goverment is perfect and the US has shown that to be true with are own mistakes. Communist is not a bad goverment if the people in power do not abuse it. All goverments must take care of ther people and not take advantage of them.
Hi!
The idea of communist is a good idea, but as a form of government itīs not too good as you can see on different examples.
The best answer to a bad form of capitalism(Microsoft) is Open Source.
klausi
First and foremost, communism is not a political movement or
government. It is a philosophy, same as Christianity, Bhuddism,
Taoism, democracy, despotism, anarchism, etc. It is not endemic
to anything but one's own personal set of beliefs. Marx and Engels tried and failed to create a political movement under the
name "communism," but their definition and subsequent implementation of what they called communism strayed far and
wide from the true meaning of communism, that is--commune-ism-
to live together and share one's life with others as a single
cooperative entity. It's a pie-in-the-sky type of philosophy that
idealists and charlatans from all walks of life, ages, and eras have
espoused but have never lived up to for the simple reason that
to live your life as a communist entails living a life without sin.
Most, if not all philosphies strive for some sort of perfection as
their ultimate goal, and most if not all of them fail miserably in
their results. Philosophies such as communism are like the
proverbial carrot on a stick that set ideals for living that are unattainable, unecessary, unwarranted, and really unwanted
by people who know well in advance that they could no more be
a communist than they could a priest.
rick barclay
Yeah, I'm not for communism. I don't like the idea that I come up with an idea for something, sell it, and become rich, just to have it all taken away from me. I'd gladly give to poor people, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to help out everyone...It's impossible to have communism without freeloaders.
It's so weird to hear people say..yes great in practice..WILL never happen. You sure are smart people. To know now that in the furure it will be imposiible. Nobody seems to learn from the past...people decide somethings impossible all the time..and a hundred years later..boom, it happens. Is it possible now? ha. not a chance. But the social changes that will occur you have no clue of. Just as the men of long ago had no clue how we would be. Some say that were just as bad now as then. We still kill and murder and what not. Bull. We have grown by leaps and bounds. And we arnt done growing. Its a classic mistake. Every generation thinks they are the peak. That man has reached its height with them. So egotistical. The past is your window to look out from under the umbrella of stupidity.
OK...Well a few problems here.
1. Communism is not a form of goverment. Neither is it a Theory, the theory that you are referring to is Marxism which is different. Communism is acturally a Economical system, and as such you can't compare democracy to Communism you can compare Capitalism and Communism, which is what most of you are doing but some of you are calling it a goverment.
2. Since Communism is not a form of goverment you can not say that Communism causes Oppression, the people in charge of the country is what causes oppression. The problem with Communism is that everyone is spose to be equal except if everyone was equal in power they would have to have a anarchist goverment(yes its a oxymoron but you know what I mean).
3. A successful anarchy goverment is only possible in a perfect would without any human flaws or disires. Unfortunitly if you have a country you will have a crimerate but the cops are part of the goverment so they would no longer have any police force so crime would sky rocket. Now you see your neighbor has something you want with no cops to worry about you go over, kill him, take anything you want. Now you are now more powerful and wealthy then other people. Which inturn you can trade and increase and even repeat this act and get more powerful. This goes on for a while till your eventurally the "goverment".
Now I have already stated and proven that a communim needs anarchy and that anarchy is only possible in a non-existent perfect world, and as such Communism is only possible in a non-existent world.
>Yeah, I'm not for communism. I don't like the idea that I come up with an idea for something, sell it, and become rich, just to have it all taken away from me. I'd gladly give to poor people, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to help out everyone...It's impossible to have communism without freeloaders.
Actually under true communism, you shouldn't get rich at all, and no one else, too. When you don't have rich and poor people, your economic state doesn't matter. Of course, the Soviet Union did have rich and poor people. The rich were the heads of the communist party, and the poor, well, everybody else. Almost. Now, on the other hand, there may be more poor people in Russia, but the poor are getting poorer.
The idea of "freeloaders" doesn't apply here. In true communism everyone give what they can and gets what they need.
Some things change, but not people. People, today, are exactly the same as they have always been throughout all of recorded history (20,000 + years). The situations change, the circumstances and the particulars, but the themes, the "human nature" has remained the same.Quote:
Originally posted by TrojanGekko
It's so weird to hear people say..yes great in practice..WILL never happen. You sure are smart people. To know now that in the furure it will be imposiible. Nobody seems to learn from the past...people decide somethings impossible all the time..and a hundred years later..boom, it happens. Is it possible now? ha. not a chance. But the social changes that will occur you have no clue of. Just as the men of long ago had no clue how we would be. Some say that were just as bad now as then. We still kill and murder and what not. Bull. We have grown by leaps and bounds. And we arnt done growing. Its a classic mistake. Every generation thinks they are the peak. That man has reached its height with them. So egotistical. The past is your window to look out from under the umbrella of stupidity.
Communism won't work because it runs contrary to practically every fundamental truth about nature and human nature. Communism says the strong protect the weak; nature says the weak die, and the species is strengthened. Communism says that nobody can have possessions, yet human nature is to desire possessions.
We are not the peak of evolution, certainly, but communism isn't even on the right road. It's NOT a good idea. It's a kind of feel good philosophy that, even if you could implement, would cause far more harm to humanity as a whole than it would do good. It's like an "and they all lived happily ever after". Sure, it makes you feel warm and cozy inside, but few people truly consider what a horrid world it would be if everyone DID live happily ever after. It's the most dangerous kind of theory, because, given a cursory glance, it looks fair and wonderful; only if you truly consider the ramifications does it become apparent that it's a damned terrible idea.
To those who seem to think that somehow, freeloaders, etc. won't happen, here's this question: In your communist ideal, what would you do if I simply refused to work? Or hoarded objects/food/whatever? What happens if people WILLFULLY CHOOSE not to follow your system? Either you allow the system to fall apart as people, in their selfishness and desire for power, sieze everything they can, or you force them to work, and take what they hoard, and then your "ideal society" amounts to nothing more than a society of slaves, forced to work for "the common good".
> 2. Since Communism is not a form of goverment you can not say that Communism causes Oppression, the people in charge of the country is what causes oppression.
While talking about communism one must remember what it has done while merged in to a country. Countries that have been communists (you know what I mean) have killed their people. Is this 'cause of communism? Perhaps, 'cause in a communist country a dictator is much like in a same position as was Hitler (except that Hitler was widely liked unlike Stalin/Mao).
> [...] but the cops are part of the goverment so they would no longer have any police force so crime would sky rocket. Now you see your neighbor has something you want with no cops to worry about you go over, kill him, take anything you want.
Remember me never come near you unless we're in a police station...
I believe that it's the current society that brings that kind of problems. However, anarchism doesn't explicitly say that there shouldn't be police or something equivalent...
> Some things change, but not people.
Saying I know/never/nowhere/etc. is something that I call lying...
> The situations change, the circumstances and the particulars, but the themes, the "human nature" has remained the same.
I believe that, there's no such thing as the ``human nature'' (note the b-word). Human is affected by situations, circumstances just like is the composition of a water as it flows from the mountain, through a valley, across the fields to an ocean.
(Democracy has its disadvantages, too)Quote:
Originally posted by lightatdawn
How 'bout adding another selection: Communism is a form of govornment and thus cannot be implicitly good or evil. Like any other tool its the user that defines it.
Communism is great in theory, but in reality it has yet to be proven to work. I'll stick to Democracy. Something about communism I don't like is that when you nationalize everything and provide everyone with the same amount of benefits no matter how you are. Health or whatever, there is not insentive in people to prosper. I mean if you get the same amount of food or whatever as someone who works hard, why even work at all, if you are going to end up getting those same benefits as the other hard working person. Anyways this is one theory of it, whether or not it's practice this way that depends on the person in power. I think that one of the greatest strength of the US and it's Democracy and that everyone has the power to succed by hard work, this is a great insentive which make the whole country better.
Why? We are ina world in which, to the best of our knowledge, most things ARE constant. The forces of nature are the exact same now as they were 10,000,000 years ago. Tomorrow, gravity, electromagnetism, etc. will obey the same laws as they always have (after the first few microseconds of the universe, anyway).Quote:
Originally posted by kooma
Saying I know/never/nowhere/etc. is something that I call lying...
To think that the driving forces which all living things obey, and have always obeyed, will suddenly, magically change is ridiculous. There is not a single rational reason to believe that gravity, tomorrow, will function differently. Nor is there a single, rational reason to assume that the laws which govern living things will change, either.
Yet, it remains water. It changes, and in different circumstances, it has different properties, but water still obeys the physical laws governing water. In the same way, people can have many different properties, and in different circumstances we can become different people, but we remain people, and still must obey the universal laws governing life.Quote:
> The situations change, the circumstances and the particulars, but the themes, the "human nature" has remained the same.
I believe that, there's no such thing as the ``human nature'' (note the b-word). Human is affected by situations, circumstances just like is the composition of a water as it flows from the mountain, through a valley, across the fields to an ocean.
Further, if humans really did change enough for the entire world to accept communism, we would deserve to go extinct; we'd be halfway there already.
Marx was an idiot. At the end of his book he said that after "communism" was in affect people would just sit around on their butts all day, doing nothing. Idol hands are the devils workshop. We sit on our butts all day anyways.
Communism is the idea that there should be no government. IT wouldnt work. With no government there would be no cops, with no cops there would be no order, with no order there would be no human race or reason to live.
Know what I mean vern?
And we dont live in a democracy, no matter what the government says, we vote and such, the average joe can run for president. It still aint democracy.
"Further, if humans really did change enough for the entire world to accept communism, we would deserve to go extinct; we'd be halfway there already."
That really depends. Whos to say that state would be so bad? if we were there it wouldnt matter...its only to us that arnt there that wouldnt want to be like that.
howdy,
first marxism IS NOT communism - marx was a political genius that went the wrong direction.
second we DO NOT practice a democratic form of government in the US. it is a republic. we vote for people to represent us we do not represent ourselves
third capitalism is not a form of government it is an economic theory. one that we almost practice in America - look at the MS and enron cases
all of that said if you ask if im marxist the answer is HELL NO! in fact im probably as close to oposite as possible.
the less government the better!
M.R.
All people are inherintly (how do you spell that?) evil, and there are bound to be pessimistic freeloaders, therefore communism does not work when incorperated into a government. Never has worked, never will work.
Share the Wealth!!
> There is not a single rational reason to believe that gravity, tomorrow, will function differently. Nor is there a single, rational reason to assume that the laws which govern living things will change, either.
If I kick you in the leg and say I'm sorry, you'll probably forgive me. If I then again kick you in the leg you'll probably kick back.
> [...] people can have many different properties, and in different circumstances we can become different people, but we remain people, and still must obey the universal laws governing life.
We can't yet fly or live under water without some man-made devices; these are the things that are physical. Is it that you say that it's impossible for a human live under communism?
Anyway, let's back up from all these analogues...
> Communism is great in theory, but in reality it has yet to be proven to work. I'll stick to Democracy.
BTW, question ``communism or democracy'' isn't a rational one...