i need a non .net 64bit windows compiler

after fiddling around with c++ express, i found it all based on the blasted .net platform which i do not want to get involved with. i wish someone had warned me.

so what's the best c++ compiler that enables me to create non .net windows 64bit (or 32 if there is no alternatives) applications? visual studio 6 comes to mind, but will the compiler be upgraded to 64bit :hmmmm: Perhaps there is a better solution?

also is there a windows api guide for c++ programmers like the one for visual basic programmers here: http://allapi.mentalis.org/vbtutor/iapi2.shtml
which essentially is an application that covers all the api functions and provides worked code examples of each?

>> i found it all based on the blasted .net platform which i do not want to get involved with.
You just have to set the right options. It does not require .NET.

I don't know about 64bit applications, but for 32 bit applications a simple Win32 console application with Empty Project set to true is all you need.

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Originally Posted by Daved

>> i found it all based on the blasted .net platform which i do not want to get involved with.
You just have to set the right options. It does not require .NET.

I don't know about 64bit applications, but for 32 bit applications a simple Win32 console application with Empty Project set to true is all you need.

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but i spent ages creating windows forms etc, only to find all the controls were .net based, console apps are fine, but can i write a c++ non .net windows interface?

Yes. You have to download the SDK if you haven't already. It's not as "easy" as using forms, but if you are familiar with windows programming in C or C++ it isn't really any different. If you're not familiar with it it is complicated but you can still do it with .Net 2005.

are you saying that there are no "forms" to drag and drop controls onto; and so you have to write all the windows code to create the forms and controls from scratch, is that what makes it complicated?

if that's the case Dave; i searched for other easier solutions...

here's a link with many c++ win compilers:
http://www.compilers.net/Dir/Free/Compilers/CCpp.htm

the ones that stand out are:
Borland C++ Compiler 5.5
Bloodshed Dev-C++
Digital Mars C and C++ Compilers
LCC-Win32
Mingw32 (2)

and this stood out the most:
http://www.intel.com/cd/software/pro...win/279578.htm
intel c++ 10.0, but it is $399 dollars, probably worth every cent.

has anyone tried some of them and can tell me which ones suck and which ones are good all the way through?

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Originally Posted by learning

are you saying that there are no "forms" to drag and drop controls onto; and so you have to write all the windows code to create the forms and controls from scratch, is that what makes it complicated?

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That's Win32 API coding. You know, that's why I hate RAD apps, like Visual Basic...makes people sometimes lazy at coding, why? Everything want it to be "drag and drop", I mean it helps..yeah, but where is the fun coding your own creation, and more important, free of non-standard libraries ;)

Previous versions of VC++ also have the class wizard, which is probably as close as you're going to get to dragging and dropping. I don't know if its close enough, though, and those previous versions might not be free either.

I'm not sure the other compilers have anything like you want either (maybe Borland?). Win32 programming in C or C++ isn't really drag and drop.

The current version has the dialog editor + MFC class wizard too - only not in the free edition.

You need Visual Studio 2005 Professional to get 64-bit support. The Express and Standard editions only output 32-bit code.

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Originally Posted by Joelito

That's Win32 API coding. You know, that's why I hate RAD apps, like Visual Basic...makes people sometimes lazy at coding, why? Everything want it to be "drag and drop", I mean it helps..yeah, but where is the fun coding your own creation, and more important, free of non-standard libraries ;)

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i understand what you are saying, however, writing everything from scratch all the time can be a drag and there is always bugs that have to be sorted out forever and a day. usually an application has a crux, and that is what a programmer should be spending their time on and not the basics. The problem with VB 6.0 was the lack of true oo and multithreading.

so the best part of vb 6.0 is the natural keywords and syntax and the ability to have relatively bug free base components to work with making it good rad. the worst part was that it was clipped in its implementation so everytime i got to something important vb was often limited, probably because its name includes the word basic ;)

c++ has to be the best solution for me now as there has to be lots of libraries and dlls to do all the basic stuff relatively bug free like create forms and basic controls and doesn't have the limitations of vb.

.net is a sore point for me, except to say that in my view if they want to go that way they should add a level of abstraction between the coder and the apis so that the compiler is multiplatform and multi cpu and creates exes containing only the optimised machine code for each sitution and therefore the programer should not require knowledge of any java or .net libraries. sure there may be some duplication of code between applications but not very much and the advantage is performance. so the coder should should only have to learn a single higher level set of objects rather than all the *nix, java, .net libraries if you get me? wouldn't it be great if we could just write an application and then the compiler just creates optimised compilations for every platform and chipset available at the time. "multirad" language anyone?

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Originally Posted by Daved

Previous versions of VC++ also have the class wizard, which is probably as close as you're going to get to dragging and dropping. I don't know if its close enough, though, and those previous versions might not be free either.

I'm not sure the other compilers have anything like you want either (maybe Borland?). Win32 programming in C or C++ isn't really drag and drop.

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i haven't tried those ides hence the question :) and i have run into too many problems with vb. isn't there some sort of drag and drop for the basic controls like forms and textboxes and buttons?

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Originally Posted by CornedBee

The current version has the dialog editor + MFC class wizard too - only not in the free edition.

You need Visual Studio 2005 Professional to get 64-bit support. The Express and Standard editions only output 32-bit code.

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ah ok, i didn't realise that, the reviews i read didn't point that out ;). have you tried other ides cornedbee? i imagine borland may upgrade their compiler to 64bit and my guess is they don't have the .net platform?

I'm not currently trying anything on the Win32 platform. My Linux compiler generates 64-bit code.

You could see if there's a 64-bit MinGW somewhere. Quickly browsing the MinGW page shows that there are development snapshots available.

Whats wrong with the GCC C++ compiler?

And no IBM's compiler priced at $399 doesn't mean its good, Its priced at $399 for the buisness support it provides, and the support IBM offers. Also its got IBM's name on it, + $300 ;)

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Originally Posted by learning

.net is a sore point for me, except to say that in my view if they want to go that way they should add a level of abstraction...multiplatform...multi cpu...snip

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So the coder learns your proposed API instead of another one. That's all fine and dandy until you realize two things:

1. All non-trivial abstractions leak. In the end, to really be effective, the end user will have to know both your API and something about the API's that you're trying to wrap.
2. During the creation of 'The One API,' some design choices must be made. These choices will influence what kinds of problems your API is designed to solve (or if you're being practical about it, the problems will influence the choices). So then later someone else decides that "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we had an API that did such-and-such instead of this terrible behavior in 'The One API'?" Then you end up with two or more API's. We might as well had not gone to the effort.

I think the closest we'll ever come to something like that is compiling to a cross-platform bytecode and then letting a system-specific runtime either JIT it or precompile it. Wait...that's exactly what .Net lets you do.