This sucks... Failing out

I need some advice from some programmers who have taken some college level classes in some pretty basic prograaming.

I took two classes last semeseter at the local college and I got a C in one class and and F in another. Needless to say, this was a shock to me. The classes were "Discrete Structures in Computer Science" (got a C) and "Data structures" (got an F !!)

The "discrete structures" class was mostly math theory and automaton theory and whatnot, I am glad I passed that damn class lol.

However, I am feeling bad about the Data Structure class which was a class using only straight ANSI compliant C code (no C++ allowed) and involved MANY MANY hours and all-nighters of my time coding these assignments to 100% accuracy.

I made ADTS of stacks, queues, mergesorts, quicksorts, hashtables, binary trees, AVT trees (which I never got right :(), and finally, a heap sort program.

Even if I failed the 3 exams that were offered, shouldn't my completely debugged programs that I spend many hours on count for something? gah...

I should also mention that the book offered absolutely NO help and also I wrote on my teacher evalution that he requires C code AND THE BOOK I BOUGHT FOR 100 DOLLARS IS ALL IN C++ GAHHHH

anyways, what should I do? Take the class again and reuse my code that's already done and just focus on passing the written part? Go to the CS department head with my complaint that I should at least recieve a C, showing him my fully debugged code?

They'll not retract the grade.

They won't change your grade. All the code you did could just as easily been copied, ripped from a library, or taken in some other way.

The point is that if you don't pass your written exams, you won't have much luck convincing the faculty that you know about Data Structures, regardless of whether you can write code for them.

Eh....I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Some people view universities as stern punks who don't give a crap, but you would be surprised what might happen if you simply go talk to your professor.

I doubt the CS department itself would care to give you anything, but if you talked to your professor you might get something.

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Have a reasonable and calm conversation. Don't be angry...just be concerned.

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I'm several years removed from under grad work, however, I do recall something about (in the US) syllabi being required to be given to students from professors -- which clearly defines the grading scale so there are no surprises. I also recall that most of my scales (for the CS work) were like 500 points for tests (3 tests at 100 points and the final at 200 points) then there was 100-200 points for projects. So, needless to say, recalling for the test is more important to professors than practical use (probably for what Happy_Reaper said -- today, work can easily be stolen from the web). ::breaks out cane:: ::talks with lack of air supply -- not the band:: back in my day, we didn't have the WWW, just ftp and gopher. . . Ahh the *good* ole days?

Check if your school has a policy for forgiveness, where if you take the class first and fail it, you can take it again, and if you get a higher grade (passing grade) then you can have that grade replace it. I have it at my college but you are limited to only three courses. And you can't replace a passing grade like a C or better.

I plan on using mine for the D I got in Statistics :(

Back when I went to school we used this old antiquated grading system. If you failed the class....then you failed the class. No amount of bargaining, whining, or psychological mumbo jumbo would ever change that.

I cannot believe what I'm hearing. Retake the class b/c you obviously do not understand the material regardless of how many incorrect programs you wrote. It used to be that ....all grades are considered final.

I don't think your boss is going to have a "forgiveness" policy do you?

Quite obviously: school != real_life

I'm not being hard I'm being real. Schools need to toughen up and get away from this sissy stuff b/c it has not changed in the real world. If you fail at your job...guess what...you are going to get into trouble no matter how much effort you put into it and regardless if you ever have missed a day of work.

Quite honestly if you don't understand and cannot code those data structures then you got what you deserved and I do not want you out there attempting to code anything using those items.

Competition is extremely tough out there right now and so I recommend finding a way to do better because it is not going to get any easier.

Sorry, that's just life. You ought to read Bill Gates's comparison of school and the real world. I guess I could sit here and coddle you and blow sunshine up your arse....but then that isn't going to get you any closer to an 'A'.

Hehehe... in Sweden you can take any exam as many times as possible, the best grade always counts. You can fail an exam 10 consecutive times and if you get an A on your 11th attempt, that's your grade. You don't even have to retake the course.

American exchange students coming here are preplexed by our system...

Ok that's crazy. So if I'm designing a new product and I get it right once out of ten times, do you think the customer is still going to buy it? My job is quality control and I can tell you now that if 1 out of 10 units were safe that would not be considered a very good ratio.

Here, the opinion is that grades are a measurement on how much you know. If you improve your knowledge the grades should reflect that. It is a pure measurement of knowledge, it really has nothing to do with work or how ambitious you are.

...but it doesn't assess the importance of preperation and promotes lazyness. Consider a kid who wants to go out with his/her friends and doesn't want to study for the exam s/he has tomorrow. In the US, if the kid went out and didn't study s/he would fail reflecting the fact that s/he didn't have enough interest in the subject in order to put out the work time required to learn it. In most situations, the kid would recognize this and study rather than slacking off with his/her friends.

In Sweden, the kid would rather go out with his/her friends knowing that even if they failed the following day, they would have equal chance to study and take it again another time for a better grade. The real world unfortunately doesn't work around our schedule... things need to be done and learned when it is requested.

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They won't change your grade. All the code you did could just as easily been copied, ripped from a library, or taken in some other way.

The point is that if you don't pass your written exams, you won't have much luck convincing the faculty that you know about Data Structures, regardless of whether you can write code for them.

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I'm several years removed from under grad work, however, I do recall something about (in the US) syllabi being required to be given to students from professors -- which clearly defines the grading scale so there are no surprises. I also recall that most of my scales (for the CS work) were like 500 points for tests (3 tests at 100 points and the final at 200 points) then there was 100-200 points for projects. So, needless to say, recalling for the test is more important to professors than practical use (probably for what Happy_Reaper said -- today, work can easily be stolen from the web).

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That's why alot of instructors who teach programming (myself included) only have about 25-40% grade based on programs...good reasons why stated above...

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Check if your school has a policy for forgiveness, where if you take the class first and fail it, you can take it again, and if you get a higher grade (passing grade) then you can have that grade replace it. I have it at my college but you are limited to only three courses. And you can't replace a passing grade like a C or better.

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Most colleges/university usually have some sort of policy like this...

Data Structures is usually the "weed out" course in CS. You usually have this type of course in all majors...

I wish you the best of luck. The worst case is that you retake the course? That is not the end of the world, I think that happens to many of us. Even theoretically being put on academic probation because of bad grades is not the end of the world. I do not think the school is out to destroy you. I think if you do sit down and talk to someone, explaining your case, you will at least get advice and help. They might raise the grade, but I would not get your hopes up too high.

I don't understand how you spent so much time coding but failed the 3 exams. The type of ambition that you showed is what usually succeeds in the real world (pulling all nighters to finish difficult projects), but unfortunately getting the damn grade also counts for a lot.

Bubba, some people have trouble taking tests even if they do understand the concepts. I suppose you could argue that you'll have the same pressure on a job as on a test, but I don't know if that's necessarily true...

>Hehehe... in Sweden you can take any exam as many times as possible, the best grade always counts.

Do you get to take the exact same test every time?

I wouldn't call Data Structures the weed-out course...at least not at my school. Data Structures is usually the course taught right after the basic programming course. That's how I saw it both in high school Computer Science and in university Computer Science.

Up here at my school the weed-out course is CS 240: Advanced C++ Programming, which assumes you already know all you need to know about data structures (which you learn in CS 235). In CS 240 you have to write a Chess game and a reimplementation of "make". That's the weed out.

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Originally Posted by DavidP

Up here at my school the weed-out course is CS 240: Advanced C++ Programming, which assumes you already know all you need to know about data structures (which you learn in CS 235). In CS 240 you have to write a Chess game and a reimplementation of "make". That's the weed out.

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Hmm... I know people with Bachelors in CS who couldn't do either of those successfully. They must have not gone to your school. It's different from school to school... a higher level of education means better teachers who are able to ask more of their students. MIT students are expected a lot, but of course their teachers can provide the knowledge to get their students on the right track.

>I know people with Bachelors in CS who couldn't do either of those successfully.

Well you do have to remember that they are a little bit scaled down. For example, on the Chess project there is no computer player. It was human vs. human. So no computer AI is needed.

So then what did you do, graphics?

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Well you do have to remember that they are a little bit scaled down. For example, on the Chess project there is no computer player. It was human vs. human. So no computer AI is needed.

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Which comes down to keeping track of values at certain offsets in an array that represent the pieces and empty squares. That's simple.

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Originally Posted by JaWiB

Do you get to take the exact same test every time?

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Of course not. :) Also, the test is perhaps held 3 times a year.

The philosophy is that the only thing that matters is what you know, not when you aquired the knowledge. If companies want to know how ambitious you are, they look at the total time it took you to graduate.

Universities don't need to emulate the harsh working environment... Their mission is to teach, not to make examples of those that didn't learn. In fact, the working environment is not so unforgiving as universities already are. A mistake in the job may or may not have repercussions. In fact, sometimes the error went unnoticed, other times, it was serious, and it was solved, and the boss simply told us to be more careful next time. With Universities, on the contrary, a bad day is all you need to have to repeat a term. Depending on the class you may have just wasted 3 or 6 months of your life (at least here in Portugal). And in the worst cases an whole year. With jobs... well, if things go wrong you don't need 6 months to look for another one.

A similar system to sweden also exists here in Portugal... and I think It's also the same in France, Spain and Germany at least. Of course, some courses don't have it, at least here. Medicine is one example where if you don't pay attention, you are basically flunked and the whole year(!) was lost.

I could imagine why.

And bubba makes it sound like "once failed, never learned" Some classes have only tests. My data structures class was poorly organized and the teacher was new and didn't have a set lesson plan. I had one project and a couple programming assignments, none of which were on data structures (aside from a simple stack-based assignment). I passed the class, but I feel that I didn't learn as much as I would have if I had taken another teacher who most people say is much better. So it's not always the case that failing and learning are 1:1.

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Originally Posted by MacNilly

However, I am feeling bad about the Data Structure class which was a class using only straight ANSI compliant C code (no C++ allowed) and involved MANY MANY hours and all-nighters of my time coding these assignments to 100% accuracy.

I should also mention that the book offered absolutely NO help and also I wrote on my teacher evalution that he requires C code AND THE BOOK I BOUGHT FOR 100 DOLLARS IS ALL IN C++ GAHHHH

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This may be not a good advice, but some professors are that tough. If the majority of students fail the class, then it's the professor; otherwise, it's you.

Also, if you're not that smart, you might want to ask around your peers before taking someone's class.

Make use of the tutoring center if there is any.

In the part of Sweden where I live you can't get any grade better than D if you were to fail and retake a test. You can however after completing a course read it again and raise your grades from there, but that will cost you unless you failed.

I'm tending more towards Bubba's point of view. It doesn't matter if you can code them. All that demonstrates is that your can follow instructions. And for that, a failiing grade cannot be changed to a passing one, because if it were, then how can you tell the difference between a failing student and a passing one ? The class isn't "Coding 101 : Learn to read an internet tutorial/Go on CBoard and implement a linked list", it's Data Structures, and you I think the passing criterion is quite clear in the name.

I know, this is a somewhat elitist point of view, but comp sci's never supposed to have been easy. People work hard to understand it. The coding has always been secondary. Few people seem to understand that in university computer science...

Well, a "failing person" does not have to be person who always fail. He or she might just not have been matured by the time or just didn't get into the programmer way of thinking. For this you shouldn't be penalized for the rest of the life just because you were slow at the start, especially when you can't choose when you want to take a class (i.e. compulsory eduction).

I think the basic mistake the OP made was to think that if he could code it he would pass the tests as well.

When you code you can debug just like the OP stated. When you take en exam or any written test there's no way you can debug that.
You take the exam, of course you can double check everything but in the end the grade is based on the errors and warnings that your compiler ( read: teacher or whoever that corrects the test ) finds.

I've had exams of a programming course that I found harder then the end project that we had to do for this course.
Reason: intellisense , compiler warnings, searching the internet and the ability to debug code makes programming look like an "easy" thing.
While in reality when one has to write code on a piece of paper and make sure that there is no mistake in it whatsoever, programming becomes more difficult.

Anyhow, since im not an evil person, I wish the OP goodluck in completing this course successfully.

There are universities, of course, that demand only the best from their students. Tolerance for failure is minimal, and self-sacrifice is almost imposed. However, these are the best. They expect to graduate only the elite. We know these universities.

However, when being asked only the best, we have the right to demand only the best teachers and universities. And not, as we see in these forums on a weekly basis, teachers that don't even care to update themselves with the latest standards, or universities that insist on using stone age software.

The teaching style and the demands universities make on their students are also largely based on how good/established/recognized that university is. Many great students graduate, of course, from small unknown universities. And they still have to prove themselves when faced against an MIT or Harvard student. Sometimes (perhaps all too many times), they did prove themselves... and still fail to get the job.

A student can expect demands of quality from their university. I'm not defending otherwise. But an healthy tyrannical approach to teaching has to be meet with great teachers, and established, recognized universities. To not accept failure from a student, when the teacher sucks and the university is only good for behind the counter jobs, is not right.

So they basically treat you like they're paying you for an education?

I'm not following you...

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Originally Posted by Bubba

Which comes down to keeping track of values at certain offsets in an array that represent the pieces and empty squares. That's simple.

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They probably have to enforce the rules of movement for all of the pieces. It's a good excersize for a second year student, it's not quite as simple as it may seem. For example you might think that if a piece moves to a square occupied by an opponent, then the opponent is killed. But this is only true if the piece is not a pawn, unless the pawn is moving diagonlly by one, but it can only move diagonally by one if an opponent is there. And pieces can't move through others, unless it's a knight etc, etc....


As for failing, that's the point of exams, to test your knowledge. Doing the assignments (even correctly, which you claim you didn't) doesn't mean much if you don't understand the concepts.

Usually you can only appeal if you feel you were graded unfairly. If you straight up failed the exams, you're probably going to have to take the course again.

>They probably have to enforce the rules of movement for all of the pieces.

Exactly...and that wasn't fun...I can tell you that right now. The basic rules of movement aren't difficult, but checking for check, stalemate, and checkmate? Those can get quite hairy.

I've did a knights tour class at most.

The grade does not say whether you are mature, intelligent, tall, short, or anything else. It tells if you understand the material at hand at the time of the test. It is not a personal attack on you nor is it a representation of what you can do. It IS a representation of what you DID do at the time of the test....and therefore if you received a failing grade in the class....I see no other recourse except for the teacher to fail you since that is what you earned.

As far as the whole punish you for the rest of your life crapola....get over it folks cuz life isn't simple, isn't easy, and isn't always fair. The winners find a way to succeed amidst all of those truths and the losers sit and whine about it.

Take your lumps, stop whining, stop trying to make the teacher see it your way (cause it won't work), accept your failing grade and position yourself to do far better the next time around. Beat the crap out of that class the next time you take it. Or you can sit and whine about it and get nowhere.

Sorry, that's how I see it. Be a winner.

A recent story about a failing grade in the life of DavidP:

This occurred this morning. (January 22nd)

I am in an intermediate piano class. In our piano class it is required that we turn in floppy disks occasionally with recordings of us playing music that we have been recording.

My piano class was at 10 AM this morning. I had made previous plans to polish my music over the weekend, record my music at 7 AM this morning, and then turn it in at 10 AM when class began, when the disks were due.

Waking up at 6 AM this morning, I was easily ready in time, and I left the apartment at about 6:55 AM to start warming up the car (as the temperatures here at freezing right now). When I unlocked the passenger side car door to put in my book bags, I heard some "cracks", and realized that something had gone wrong...most likely because of the ice in the car door lock. When I tried shutting the door, the door simply would not stay shut.

I continued by turning on the car and letting it warm up, while scraping the ice off that car. After doing that, I tried closing the passenger door again, but to no avail. Taking a length of coaxial cable which I had at my disposal, I tried tieing the door shut. Unfortunately the coaxial cable was too long, which made it difficult to get a good knot. I thought about cutting the coaxial cable to make it shorter, and so I went to the trunk of my car to see if I had any proper tools in it.

While in the trunk of my car I found a length of rope, which was the perfect length, and so I put away the cable and used the rope instead. Unfortunately, no matter how taught I pulled the rope, the car door would not stay completely shut. It would still open enough that it could be a danger to myself or others on the road. So I decided to drive to school by holding the rope taught in my hand, and providing a constant physical tension to keep the door shut.

Finally arriving at school (it is now about 7:35 because of this entire ordeal), I try to think of a way I can securely leave my car. I decided the best thing to do was to tape down the rubber stopper which signaled my "car door" light on the dash, and then tie the rope off to something enough to keep the door relatively closed. I searched hurriedly in my car for some tape, but couldnt find any, which means I had no way (to my knowledge) to keep the car-door-light off, and so it would remain on and drain my battery all day long.

In a miracle of events, I closed the passenger side door one more time, and it stuck shut! The door actually remained shut this time! I tried pulling on it just to make sure...and it stayed shut. I went around to the drivers side and pushed on it...and it stayed shut. Ecstatic, I quickly locked the car and hurried off to the Fine Arts building to go to the piano lab, where I could record my music.

I arrived at the piano lab at 7:45 AM, 45 minutes after my planned arrival. This did not bode well for me. There was a class schedule for 8 AM, and another class schedule for 9 AM, and then my class at 10 AM. That means I had roughly 15 minutes to record my music, unless the 8 am and 9 am professors would be nice enough to let me use a piano during their class periods to record my music.

7:45 - I put my floppy disk in the keyboard/piano so I can begin to record my music. The keyboard angrily spits back at me: "Your disk is corrupted!"

Yet another setback! I cannot record music with a corrupted disk! So I rushed to the bookstore to and bought a box of floppy disks so that I could do my recording. Unfortunately, the 8 am teacher of the piano class had no free pianos in her room. All were being used, and so I could not record my music.

This was the same case for the 9 am piano teacher.

10:00 - I walk into class at 10 am with no recorded disk, and the feeling that I have been kicked in the balls a million times in the span of one morning. I explain to the teacher my situation, and that it couldn't have been helped. She replies, "Sorry. I can't give you more time. It wouldn't be fair to the other students."

Rather than make me angry...it just feels like another kick to the balls....

So....one of those disks is considered a test grade....Basically I just got screwed because of my car door. Therefore, in response to Bubba:

>accept your failing grade and position yourself to do far better the next time around

I accept it...but it doesn't mean it's right.

DavidP, your story has nothing to do with that of the original poster, who was simply unable to solve the problems in the time alloted for the exam. What happened to him was not a case of bad luck.

I'm not completely oblivious to Bubba's point of view. But I don't think life is that black and white; Either you are a winner, or not.
Not to mention that it would be hard at best to decide what is a winner. It isn't either that bleak; that notion that life is hard and all... hard is to devote over 10 years to a programming language and see it being killed in one day. However, I'm perfectly happy starting my bookshop.

A failed test is a failed test, I agree. But nobody is questioning that. Simply reminding that most universities do have in place evaluation systems that go beyond the "you fail, you don't pass" tyranny. Students are often given second chances and sometimes even more in order to avoid losing an whole term. And that is a reality. Don't whine over it. :)

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Beat the crap out of that class the next time you take it.

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Brilliant statement. Means much more than it stands for. The thing to always better is a previous attempt.

But really if you feel you're not going to pass the class, drop it. I've always had some sort of pride in not dropping a class. Most times I pass it, but my pride came back to me when I failed my statistics class. I would have been in the same predicament last semester bu I dropped two of my hardest classes because if i stayed I would have failed. They say not to drop because it shows up on your transcript and could "affect employment" but failing classes could affect your school career.

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But really if you feel you're not going to pass the class, drop it. I've always had some sort of pride in not dropping a class. Most times I pass it, but my pride came back to me when I failed my statistics class. I would have been in the same predicament last semester bu I dropped two of my hardest classes because if i stayed I would have failed. They say not to drop because it shows up on your transcript and could "affect employment" but failing classes could affect your school career.

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I guess thats true. If it shows you have dropped a class as it was too complicated, then in a positive way it does show you have attempted that class, and also shows you are willing to have a go at challenging things. Nobody can do everything 100% perfectly. You are only human after all.

In any case I HAVE to take it again and pass it.

i wish you the best of luck indigo. Let us know if you pass it. :)

Rashakil Fol, you obviously missed the point of my entire post. I was responding (in a story-like form :) ) to those people who declare that "a failing grade is it. take it or leave it." If you had properly read the thread you would have realized that the idea I was trying to get across is the simple fact that sometimes things happen that are out of our control, and we don't always deserve a failing grade, and THUS is the reason why schools should have some type of "forgiveness" policy (that's what people on this thread like to call it, so I will call it that).

Just because I didn't directly declare that intent doesn't mean the post was on a tangent.

>Either you are a winner, or not.


hehehe, has anyone seen little miss sunshine? :)

Haven't seen yet but I was really surprised today when I learned it was nominated to the oscars.

And this is really something I need to get out of my chest:

I REALLY hate Portuguese film distributors or whoever is responsible for something really stupid that has been happening ever since I was a little kid. In Portugal, foreign movies aren't dubbed (thank god for that!). But something else, equally evil happens. We change the titles to the Portuguese language. And on most cases we do it with a twist; we completely change the tiles to the Portuguese language.

So... Little Miss Sunshine that actually would have been quiet easy to translate to Portuguese, is named here "Family close to an attack of nerves". Yup. No kidding. Just how idiotic is that. I mean... c'mon! I feel embarrassed. It makes us all look like we are retarded or something.

But does it help selling at least? Hell no!
I only got interested on the movie when I learned today it got nominated to the oscars. Who here would want to see "Family close to an attack of nerves"!? Geez!

And this is not the only, the first, or the last movie to be stupidly named by retarded, idiotic, pseudo-defend-the-portuguese-language activists who should really be shot (I hereby change my views on the death penalty!). You wouldn't believe the amount of other sad examples I could give you...

[/end rant]

>> [/end rant]

I haven't seen a [begin rant] ... does that mean all your 2.5k posts plus were rants? And there I was thinking you were a kind hearted MURK writing Portuguese man. Good story about the family close to an attack of the nerves! I'd definitely see it! but that said I enjoyed Troll 2 immensely, and though the name isn't as concise, it sounds just as good as FCTAAON!

Yeah. I plan to see it now.

And for the record I don't put begin rant because I don't want to be blamed of ever starting hostilities.

What did they call the matrix?

Some movies they don't touch. The Matrix was one of those. It's totally random and subject to the whim of however is responsible for this. I cannot seem to be able to remember right now some other crying examples... but here's a short list just so that you have a feeling for the absurdity of it all:

Less bad:
Sound of Music - Music of the Heart (What's the problem with Sound of Music??)
Gone with the Wind - And The Wind Took All (for pete's sake!)
The Clockwork Orange - Mechanical Orange (right!)

Very bad:
Memory - Hallucinations (Thank you sooo much for revealing the end of the movie!)
Across the Tracks - Running the Destiny (I don't even know what they meant)
The Green Mile - Waiting for a Miracle (you bet I am!)

The worst I can recall right now:
Spaceballs - SOS, There's a madman in Space (*headdesks*)

And then to confuse the senses, a couple of other examples:
Finding Nemo wasn't translated
Saving Private Ryan was correctly translated

The weirdest translations of english movies into Swedish would be the movies by Mel Brooks:

The Producers <-> Springtime for Hitler

So far so good -- that is an acceptable title, because "Springtime for Hitler" is a fictional play within the movie. But his following movies:

Blazing Saddles <-> Springtime for the Sheriff
The Twelve Chairs <-> Springtime for Mother-in-law
Young Frankenstein <-> Springtime for Frankenstein
High Anxiety <-> Springtime for the Maniacs
History of the World, Part I <-> Springtime for the World, Part I
Spaceballs <-> Springtime for Space
Life Stinks <-> Springtime for the Slum
Robin Hood: Men in Tights literally translated
Dracula: Dead and Loving It literally translated

So the craziness stopped with Robin Hood.

This got sidetracked.

I feel you pain, Mario, here in Quebec they have something similar. Under the guise "protecting the language", like a year ago, there was this law that passed forbidding video rental stores from keeping the english text on the back of movie and video game boxes. Yeah, that's right. So when I wanted to go rent a video game for my PS2, there was no way, literally NO WAY for me to get an idea as to what the game I was renting was, let alone know how many players can play it at once, if it had online support, or the amount of space it took on my memory card...way to save the culture...

I'll be taking the class again in Fall. I think some of you might have got the wrong idea, I DO understand at least 70-80% of whats involved in the data structures class. Well, at least on the second time around I'll have a chance to refine my knowledge. Alls not lost, I was drunk, mad and depressed when I posted the original post. Also, it'll be a different teacher who's not known to be such a hardcase. Maybe he'll actually follow what's in the book (which I still have).

Thanks for the replies, I'm not offended, I realize it was my own fault for what happened.

This is like a 3.5 month old thread.

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Originally Posted by Bubba

This is like a 3.5 month old thread.

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Captain Obvious to the rescue. Whats your point?

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Whats your point?

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Generally, thread necromancy is frowned upon, though "closure" is a mitigating factor on your side here.

He's the op of this thread and only intended to explain what happened since the event in the first post. Better to post in this old thread than to open a new thread.

I wonder what happended to Mario F? I havent seen him for ages