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We the undersigned wish to petition the management of cprogramming.com to restore the post checking script which detected attempts to post code without using tags.
If you agree, kick on the "yes" on the poll.
If you disagree that such a script is a waste of space, then click "no" and some people will be around to "educate" you later on....
As ammusing as I find 'Jewelry Price Tag' (Add from Google), I cannot agree more with the OP
Absolutely. I'm actually quiet surprised it was removed. Although it did have the nagging side effect of forcing one to place code tags before switching to the advanced edit box. But that's peanuts.
When it was removed the numbers of posts without code tags raised incredibly.
Or if it only forced the tags for over 3 lines of code or something, cause lets be honest, code tags for a one liner shouldn't be forced, and are unnecessary!
>> When it was removed the numbers of posts without code tags raised incredibly.
:(
Down with the noob who want you to do their homework, off with their head, code tags for the win!
Politically - most unified cboard ever.
> code tags for a one liner shouldn't be forced
They never were. It totally depended on what that line had in it. One of the triggers for the alert was the use of curly braces.
>> They never were.
I know, but just to make sure they don't go over-kill cause we want more :)
I may have to cast a dissenting vote just to annoy Salem :p
Is there a minimum amount of "signatures" required for this petition to be accepted?
Agreed.
I'm for it.
How that script works?
Can I vote yes again? How about another 20 times?
but then i can't use {} in my everyday speech ;) Of course it should come back
Even for the mustached smilies???? :-{|
function(int a);
That script will prevent me to send this post?
That's the point. It's not operational. it used to be, but now it's not.
For that one-liner you posted, it's ok, cause it's not messy etc, but some people had childish infactuations with posting 1,000,000, slight exaggeration, line chunks of code with no tags. I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't read them!!
What about an auto tagger?
>What about an auto tagger?
Only if it can be explicitly overridden. I doubt I'm the only one who cares about the presentation of a post, and automatic solutions tend to hurt that.
How could the thing know where the code starts and ends?eg -
something me ( "Who knows what this does! It could be a function or someone's opinion" ); and some people know when to use ;'s instead of ,'s. haha
me.extra lines;
it would be nice, but hard to standardise unless everyone used the same rules, and if they won't put the tags on themselves, granted, it's very hard to do, they won't conform!
That's it! Cprog Style Guidelines! Any post that fails to follow them is automatically tossed into the bit bucket. And of course, the style guidelines will reflect my style because I'm just that awesome. :)
I agree, your style reflects mine ... or is it mine reflects yours ... Why don't you write up the standards for CBoard for us then :)
I wouldn't mind a fixed style even if it didn't reflect mine. Some forums actually have that, don't they?
The only thing that I really don't like is the ANSI style when it comes to how curly braces are placed.
ugh!Code:void function()
{
blabla...
}
WHAT! Have you no shame? Are you a
Kida person? I hate them ... I'm going to have to reconsider putting MURK on my site ;)Code:void function(){
blabla...
}
Ok, ok. Darn! I will change my whole coding style just not to lose this opportunity ;)
Another international crisis avoided! Phfew!
(I normally hate using them, but) lol
There can be a checkbox for it.Quote:
Only if it can be explicitly overridden. I doubt I'm the only one who cares about the presentation of a post, and automatic solutions tend to hurt that.
>> it would be nice, but hard to standardise unless everyone used the same rules, and if they won't put the tags on themselves, granted, it's very hard to do, they won't conform!
IMO, If they won't use the tags, they won'y check the box!! Especially the 'newbs'.
EDIT - I can't believe you voted against it, siavoshkc! (sorry to everyone else), but which would you prefer to look at?
Code from here
orCode:int Stuff::save(Stuff *sPtr)
{
ofstream outfile("Outfile.txt");
if( !outfile )
{
cerr << "Couldn't open file" << endl;
return 1;
}
outfile << sPtr->string << endl << sPtr->stringTwo << endl << sPtr->num << endl;
outfile.close(); // I don't trust destructors
return 0;
}
int main()
{
Stuff stuffObject;
strcpy(stuffObject.string, "Hello");
strcpy(stuffObject.stringTwo, "Yo");
stuffObject.num = 10;
stuffObject.save(&stuffObject);
return 0;
}
int Stuff::save(Stuff *sPtr)
{
ofstream outfile("Outfile.txt");
if( !outfile )
{
cerr << "Couldn't open file" << endl;
return 1;
}
outfile << sPtr->string << endl
<< sPtr->stringTwo << endl
<< sPtr->num << endl;
outfile.close(); // I don't trust destructors
return 0;
}
int main()
{
Stuff stuffObject;
strcpy(stuffObject.string, "Hello");
strcpy(stuffObject.stringTwo, "Yo");
stuffObject.num = 10;
stuffObject.save(&stuffObject);
return 0;
}
there's no option!!
Honestly,
Sure, code tags make the board look prettier, but we can tell the difference between code or text without the tags.
EDIT:
Although, the fact that the code tags support indenting is nice.
It shouldn't be enforced. If someone brings in their code sloppiely, then they just risk having people stay away from their post. So they decided.
True, but I personally won't look at code without tags (slight exaggeration, but not by far!!) - it takes four seconds to code tag something. Even if it's not formatted, or whatever, it's nice to distinguish code from not-code at a glance!
It's not a question of recognizing it. It's question of preserving formatting.
>> It shouldn't be enforced. If someone brings in their code sloppiely, then they just risk having people stay away from their post. So they decided.
Fair point, but what if they are ignorant of that possibility? Then it's to their benifit to have the requirement
Although I'm in between I voted against it. I don't like the idea of having people asking for help and then posting a hideous behemoth without code tags but there have also been instances when I wanted to just post a single simple line or two (for a comparison) and code tags were unnecessary.
There are pros and cons to both. I'd rather deal with the occasional annoyance (using it when it's not really needed, being unable to "Go Advanced" w/o them) than have to look at unformatted code. Even if I ignore the post, the damage is done; I still want to vomit.
One-liner's were never a problem to the validation script, you could always post a few simple lines without code tags if you really wanted to.
Also, if you really wanted to post braces, you could use the HTML character quoting & # thingy to get your braces into prose.
"Auto tagger with check box" agreed.
Else I should test it to see I like it or not. Of course it will be useful when others are posting, but I am thinking it might bother me when I, am posting.
can't we just hire someone to read all the post and put code tags in? ;-)
No, I believe a bot should do it. Infact, I believe bots should do everything around here then the people can just have fun. Then sin can attack, we can all be destroyed and I finally get to try blitzball.
If there was an auto tagger, it should be enabled by default on accounts, then you can go to your profile and shut it off... though I am not saying that is the solution I would want.
I believe the annoyances < newb poster without code tags. I am not sure how many times I have had to say, code tags please when I looked at a post. Unformated code drives me insane... I have to reformate any code that is given to me by classmates half the time because they haven't figured out when to tab and when not too (since scope seems to mean nothing to them).
The indentation provided by code tags is essential and should be required and checked for.
I voted no.
Not using code tags is clear reflection of "I want help NOW and reading forum stickies like 'Read before posting' is for nannies without titties... and I think I should write my stream of thoughts without any commas or hell the dots and enter is button that is only used to hit when you dont know what else button to hit since its nicely big and all thatandmaybeishouldalsonotusespaceeither!"
They. Just. Dont. Care.
Forcing tags, autotagging or what ever you do, the result of these untagged versions (forced/autofixed) would still be without proofreading or any interest from the poster how readable the post is. They probably dont even know what "preview" means, I could bet some think it's a breakfast.
To go beyond the topic about forum looks... You all should also look at your signature. Do you really think it's necessary to fill half screen of others with code tag in it? Or homungous amounts of quotes? Or stinky list of all the cool app's youre using more or less daily? Where's the self critisism anyway? Oh thank the maker there aint those sig images with pixel height over 500.
If I ran the forum, instead of notifying the poster that they're missing code tags... I would have it auto-ban them forever...
I guess that's why I don't run the forums...
There can be a pop-up Window for the new members to explain them use of tags. here is the text:This window will pop up for each new member three times. And when they are informed they will have no excuses to post without tag.Quote:
Welcome to cprogramming message board.
In order to make you post readable place your code or everything you don't want its format to be changed in a pair of [CODE.] [/CODE.] tags.
There is also a button (quote tagger button icon here) to wrap [QOUTE.] tags around your selected text. Use this option to quote someone else statements.
It can have a checkbox below the "Show your sinature" checkbox.Quote:
If there was an auto tagger, it should be enabled by default on accounts
Why not using an IDE with auto tabbing?Quote:
I have to reformate any code that is given to me by classmates half the time because they haven't figured out when to tab and when not too (since scope seems to mean nothing to them).
Aha, this is the reason you don't have a signature!Quote:
You all should also look at your signature. Do you really think it's necessary to fill half screen of others with code tag in it? Or homungous amounts of quotes? Or stinky list of all the cool app's youre using more or less daily? Where's the self critisism anyway?
Because I only use a IDE when I am doing quick changes+test of code, otherwise all of my coding is done in CE (or vim if I am on my linux box) I feel more confortable in CE.
Yeah, no offence mate, it's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by siavoshkc
I'm sure I will add sig when I feel like I should have something... like a link to my source collection. Or something far more usefull stuff.
Ok, how about this -
When someone posts code without tags, an alert box comes up, saying "No tags, people are likely to ignore your post because of it. Want to auto tag, put tags yoursefl, or no tags", then it's just a matter of choosing one of three options.
A few hints could also be helpful. Some clearly visible text on the new thread page reminding everyone of code tags and probably also move the two tag buttons to a more prominent position.
I think we can agree that someone with about 100 posts will use tags, right? I think something like this may go down well -
Use an if statement or something to either put this up or not, depending on the user's competancy ...
Attachment 6734
What'dee think? Whose with me to create accounts to fix the poll, only joking, mods
I have a new idea - those who voted "no" will be watched carefully for any violation of the code tagging rules. I'm not going to tag such code, I'm going to delete it with a suitable Quzah-esqe remark.
I'm not impressed by the whining about whether one could post a brace in prose because the script was extensively tested and found to be far more useful than annoying.
I just wish that the voting data structure / table relation does not have relation between voter and vote item. Usually anonymity is preserved by only defining who has voted, but not what was voted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salem
Apart from that, people behind the scenes here are most probably all professionals and believing the script is properly tested is quite easy. Maybe my vote was misplaced, please have mercy on my soul... ;)
Click on "view poll results"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennor
SURPRISE!
Who said CBoard was a democracy, Rennor? Do you remember voting for leaders? If not, then why should anonymity be an issue :p
Edit - I wonder if this thread will get closed if it goes off topic ... Don't hurt me
If you don't like it, don't view them. Under Edit Options > Thread Display Options:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennor
"I want these motha *#$&in noobs of this motha *#$&in board!"[/sammyjack]
> When someone posts code without tags, an alert box comes up, saying "No tags, people are likely to ignore your post because of it. Want to auto tag, put tags yoursefl, or no tags"
That message is entirely too long! Newbies don't like to read!
Let me ask something, tagging is a law that is going to be forced? If so do whatever you want. Why polling?
Maybe I don't want to tag my code for some reason. If you don't like it, don't read it and don't post any answer. It is up to me to make the post readable so others can help me.
We're polling to demonstrate the need for the code tag script. Other people read the board, and it looks fairly more professional to present something people can read. There are other boards that automatically preserve spacing with those &# non-breaking space things, but this board doesn't do that.
> Let me ask something, tagging is a law that is going to be forced?
It's not necessarily a law, at least, I think that is the wrong way to look at it. Earlier versions of the board had a script that checked for code tags: when triggered it would display a harmless message box, and nothing crazy like a ban. When we upgraded recently, somebody forgot to put the script back, but nobody cared until we were slammed with illegible posts.
> Maybe I don't want to tag my code for some reason
I can't think of one.
No, wait, yes I can - just watch this!
Check your sig and tell me again what possible lame-assed reason you could possibly have for posting code without code tags.
Unless it's because you're a stupid pig-ignorant illiterati who can't be arsed to read the rules !!!!
We could all just change our sigs like quzah
You can feel the warmth of this topic... or is it heat?
The most sensible thing to do is to actually be offensive when discussing code tags. I'm touched.
Was this script efficient? If it was, and it was harmless, again why polling? Put it back. No? It wasn't efficient, don't.Quote:
Earlier versions of the board had a script that checked for code tags: when triggered it would display a harmless message box, and nothing crazy like a ban. When we upgraded recently, somebody forgot to put the script back, but nobody cared until we were slammed with illegible posts.
So its a rule and you want to force it. Why polling?Quote:
Unless it's because you're a stupid pig-ignorant illiterati who can't be arsed to read the rules !!!!
[edit]
Please close this thread for the sake of democracy (and before Salem kicks me out of the forum for voting no).
> Why polling?
I suspect Salem doesn't have the support from the admins to get it implemented and he wants to show them that the board at large thinks it's necessary.
That's just a guess, though.
>> Maybe I don't want to tag my code for some reason. If you don't like it, don't read it and don't post any answer.
echo Salem - I don't see what reason one could have for not using them ... makes no sense to me really. And if you do post code without tags, unless the topic interests me, I won't ;)
>> We could all just change our sigs like quzah
Nice idea, but I don't know if it would work ... unless quzah posts at the start of every thread ...
This is why we neet that script back!http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showt...185#post582185
For example I don't want to quote my one line
fstream myfile;
I don't know the script's behavior as I said. But if it wants to prevent me, I am not agree with it. It is my freedom to send my post in whatever format I want (even if I never send a bad formated post in my life). If moderators want to force members, the polling is meaningless, or at least it should be titled: "Force code tags or not?". But if this polling is to ask ideas, this is my idea.
Beside the auto tagger that is very useful, a script for painting keywords would be very nice.
If its true, why admins don't come to tell us their opinion? The board can activate the script for a while and after that poll for it.Quote:
I suspect Salem doesn't have the support from the admins to get it implemented and he wants to show them that the board at large thinks it's necessary.
I voted yes before I even read what they were..... :p I don't regret it though.
>You've voted, right, joe. Voted yes, right?
Didn't you look at the extended poll results?
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=959
I was unaware of this. The forced code tags was irksome when trying to quote something like:Quote:
Also, if you really wanted to post braces, you could use the HTML character quoting & # thingy to get your braces into prose.
You would be forced to add code tags.Code:if (num == 2) {
The problem with the code tag script was that it was stupid, and easily thwarted. People would just stick code tags in... NOT AROUND THEIR CODE... just in any old place, and it would still let their code through. Or, you could have two segments of code, with say a commentary between them, wrap one of them in code tags, and not the other, and the script wouldn't catch it.
Also, if I recall correctly, the script was stupid in that any time you used a { or a }, it assumed you were posting code, and required you to code tag wrap that. As a matter of fact, I believe that was the only thing it checked for. For example, the following wouldn't require code tags:
if( a == b )
c( );
else
d( );
Anyway, I'm for deleting threads which don't use code tags. Delete it, PM them why, and call it good enough.
Quzah.
I voted yes because whenever I was notified about not having tags I felt
overwhelming shame and uncleanliness and immediately modified my post.
Perhaps just a warning before continuing would suffice, and a counter of the
number of times it was ignored by a person, maybe a limited number in a
timeframe - (so many per week || another amount per month) - if either is
broken your post is blocked?
I'm personally fed up with the number of poorly formatted posts lately, and the
necessity to request that the OP cleans it up. Also, is the page with the rules
still displayed when becoming a member these days? Perhaps a big flashing
annoying box that says use tags and ask definite questions that won't close
for half an hour might do the trick for new members - be a fun challenge to get
that past pop up blockers...
I don't remember that script...must have been during some hiatus or something.
Not to stroke the fur the wrong way, but I'm going to say no. Why?
1) we do a pretty good job of ignoring people who don't use code tags
2) those who don't ignore usually mock the poster in a most entertain fashion /cough quzah /cough
So intead of code tags, we should just make sure quzah sticks around. If he's ok with that idea of course. Or maybe we can have a public service anouncment with the transforms.
"Always use code tags timmy, or you're going to get reamed. Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
No need to delete the posts, no need to mock the user. The script is a minor annoyance to established members who know what they are doing, but it often helps new members who don't.
Not everybody who doesn't know the rules is an idiot, and the code tag script is an excellent way to help those that aren't. Those that are will expose themselves anyway.
> For example I don't want to quote my one line
> fstream myfile;
The script never detected one-liners like that.
It used the heuristic that IF (and only IF) the post had braces that is was almost certainly code (good enough to bet on anyway).
Braces imply that the code has block structure (and therefore if the programmer has any clue, indentation), and thus it becomes highly desirable that the code is surrounded by code tags to preserve that indentation.
> The board can activate the script for a while and after that poll for it.
We did that last time, long before you showed up.
All I'm after is getting the functionality prior to the board upgrade restored, nothing more.
Wanna reverse your vote yet?
> Not to stroke the fur the wrong way, but I'm going to say no. Why?
So half the posts on the board become the ticking corpses of posts which got it wrong first time round. And when the creative flames die away and posts become ignored, the board will die - nobody posts on boards which have 0 replies to too many threads.
Yeah, "That'll work - NOT"
Here is my simple auto tagger, it finds code lines and marks them as "code" then it will add tags where appreciated :
1) Find all lines ending with ';' and mark them as "code". This line will be processed later. Now search backward to find a blank line and mark all lines below it as "code".
2) Find all lines beginning with '#' and mark them as "code".
3) Find ")*{" where * is space or nothing. Then search for "}" and mark all the lines between them as "code".
4) In case of ")*{" search backward for "(" and mark its line as "code"[EDIT] and its above line until reach a blank line.
5) Find all lines beginning with "//" and mark them as code.
6) Find all lines beginning with "/*" and find its next"*/" then mark all lines between them (including their lines) as code.
With this technique, this program will be tagged like this:
[Quote]
This is my program take a look at it.
Think we have a int array each member for each line. 0 is for no code, 1 is for code and -1 is for blank lines. My code is lines, the array will be like:Code:
//This program is for testing auto tagger
#include<iostream>
int a;
int b;
using namespace std;
int main()
{
cin >> a;
cout<<"On your mark, ready set lets go"
<<"dance floor pro, I know you know…";
return 0;
}
cout << "This line is out of the braces "<<endl
<<"but it will be marked as \"code\" too"<<endl;
In the next phase it will turn all -1 between 1s to 1. In the third phase it adds code tags and paint keywords for the sequences of 1s.Code:isCode[0] == 0 : isCode[10] == 1:Between{}
isCode[1] == 1 :// Mark isCode[11] == 1 :Between{}
isCode[2] == 1 :'#' Mark isCode[12] == 1:Between{}
isCode[3] == 1 :';' Mark isCode[13] == 1:Between{}
isCode[4] == 1 :';' Mark
isCode[5] == -1 :Blank isCode[14] == 1 : } Mark
isCode[6] == 1 : )*{ Found isCode[15] == -1 :Blank
isCode[7] == 1 :)*{ Found isCode[16] == 1 :';' Mark backward search
isCode[8] == 1 :Between{} isCode[17] == 1 :';' Mark
isCode[9] == 1 :Between{} isCode[18] == -1 : Blank
There should be one blank line between code and no code if poster wants to begin code without brace.
For exampleQuote:
This line doesn't work:
Code:cout<<"classmates ar lazy"
<<endl;
I think (as far as I can see) the main reason some of you are pushing for the code tag script is:
* To learn newbies in the art of using code tags
And the opposition is mostly centred on:
* Experienced members know what they're doing and don't want to have bots force their poorly-coded opinions on them
So why don't we force the tags on new members, pop-up a "reminder" for existing members and assume the seniors are better off without? You could use postcounts to differentiate.
As for me, well, I'd rather the forum software just inform me ("Hey, you seem to have forgotten code tags") and not force anything, or worse, do it by itself.
>> So why don't we force the tags on new members, pop-up a "reminder" for existing members and assume the seniors are better off without? You could use postcounts to differentiate.
Let's not. Post counts should never mean anything, and it would be too simple to get rid of such a lousy barrier with a little time.
Not necessarily directed at anyone (but maybe everyone): I really do have trouble understanding the opposition in this discussion. A little JavaScript alert is pretty non-intrusive, and JavaScript can be disabled if you hate it. The experienced people here are not likely to see it that often anyway. The trouble in "Going Advanced" is also a non-issue, simply because the reply button was there if you needed to do something fancy. The auto-tagger was never a serious idea, coming from this thread, either.
But post counts imply that the poster is at least somewhat competent (forum wise, not C/C++/C#/Win/Linux programming wise)! I mean, if a new member wants to ask a question, they won't go to the GD where code isn't the main discussion, they go to whichever board seems right. Even if someone is competent at programming, that doesn't mean that they know about the tags, which in turn doesn't mean they will use them. Lets face it, who read the guidelines before posting their first thread?
The script could ignore stuff inside [noparse][/noparse] tags. That way if you wanted to post a curly brace (like "You forgot a } after the second if") outside code tags you could surround it with noparse tags.
[edit] If the script was enabled without any way to post curly braces, some people would have to change their signatures. This one comes to mind:
[/edit]Quote:
Originally Posted by crepincdotcom
True that, but the thing about doing that specifically is that people won't do it! If they won't use code tags yady yada yada ... we've been over it beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by dwks
But there could be a noparse quick click buttons put around I suppose ... although, that said, I think code tag buttons would be handy for the quick reply! (not intending to hijack this thread for my siggy's purposes) Cause I for one am a lazy guy, and don't really want to type [CODE][/CODE] when it should be easy enough to implement the button.
Yes, it must be.Quote:
Can we please get a code tag button on the quick reply?