C++ Dead(disuss, Jesse Liberty forums)

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763.1

I generally do not encourage questions on these forums that are beyond the scope of my books, but I wanted to ask this community about the following proposition. I am not wedded to this idea, I'm just trying it out. Feel free to disagree as strongly as you like....

C++ Is Dead (but it doesn't know it yet)

1. Java offers a very strong alternative to C++ for cross platform development. The Java library is rich, and Java itself is a more modern, garbage collected language. Java will be king of the non-Microsoft world soon if it is not there already.

2. Microsoft has bet the company on .NET and over the next few years all Windows development (for Windows desktop and for Windows Web applications) will move to .NET. C# is far superior to C++ for .NET development.

Given these two statements, the only audience I see for C++ in 3-5 years is in legacy applications and those few applications where performance is everything.


In short, I think C++ in 2004 will look a lot like Assembler in 1994. I'm not happy about this (a lot of my revenue is in C++ primers) but it does seem inevitable. If a programmer came to me today and asked my advice about C++ vs. Java, I'd steer him to C# first, Java second, C++ third.

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This is taken from Jesse Liberty's forums(author of Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days). I thought this was interesting.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/Liber...ges/?msg=763.1

http://cboard.cprogramming.com/searc...searchid=48373

Point: Its been discussed before

Perhaps for the particular domains he is working in... I'll hold off on believing that until someone can show be a good, fast, and efficient FEA library in Java.

As much as I like it, I really don't think .NET is as widespread as it seems at first. By his thinking, C should've been dead years ago, but the fact is, every language is different and useful for different things. Assemblys not dead. Many of the big companies pay through the nose to get good System 370 programmers because no one knows it, but all the big companies are tied down to it. My Dad learnt System 370 and now can get whatever he wants from the company because they know they need him, and that he can't be replaced very easily at all.

if anything, I would say that this news just makes it more important to learn the "old fashion" languages like C/++ and assembler.

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Originally Posted by nbk

A great programmer has a 'theory' that C++ will die - you don't hear that from big people often)

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just because you were hired to write a SAMS book doesn't mean you're a great programmer, or for that matter, have any real idea of what's going on in the industry ;)

If you have some other reason to call him a great programmer, please do, but for now, I don't see somebody that thinks you can learn C++ in 21 days is worth the time to listen to...

An excellent point, major_small. Someone at the C++ board was telling me that some guy who worked on the ANSI standards had said that all C code was portable to C++ and that with no exaggeration, C++ was a superset of C. While this may be a good way of explaining things to newbies, someone speaking at this level should be making that distinction, and the next time they quoted him on a different subject, I said that if he really thought C++ was nothing more than an addition to C, he shouldn't be working on the ANSI standards, and I didn't care how "high up" he was. Just because someone holds a certain position does not mean they are qualified to. Prelude probably knows more than that guy.

C++ dead?

Isn't Mozilla coded in C++?

And isn't Doom 3's engine coded in C++ too?

>>you don't hear that from big people often
For good reason. Popular programming languages do not die, they merely fall out of the media's view in favor of newer and "better" languages. For a language to truly die, nobody must use it, the source base must be replaced, all code written in it must never be maintained, and any replacement must be able to perform all of its duties with equal or better ability. Anyone who says otherwise is woefully misinformed.

The article posted suggests that C++ will only be used for legacy applications and performance critical software. While I am disinclined to try my hand at predicting the future, the extraordinary source base of C++ is likely to keep C++-centric programmers employed for many decades to come. To me, this does not suggest that C++ is dead by any stretch of the imagination.

Naturally, I have come to the same conclusion with the C language as well.

Like princeton said, popular languages do not die. Yeah, maybe PC programming will start to favor Java and C#, blah blah blah, but there are lot more things you can program than just a PC. I do a lot of programming for robotics controllers, and I don't think I'll be using C# any time soon. I use a mixture of C and assembly for robotics. Yeah, I know there are some controllers that support java, but it is a huge waste of space and speed.

The point is that these newer programming languages need more to run. C# requires you to have the .NET framework installed. Java requires the JRE. For many applications, you don't have the space to support this. The robot controller I use has barely over a megabyte of Flash space.

All in favor of wishing these discussion would die say Aye.

Aye. (and a big part of the reason C will stay like Princeton said - it's the perfect miz between low-level power and high-level syntax, yet it is almost infinitely flexible)

I keep hearing that MS next OS is not going to allow unprotected programs to run or maybe it was programs that are not made with the .NET technology. Is this really true? are MS really going to break there chain of compatibility with older versions of their OS?

if this is the case then MS are going to lose big time and if thats not the case then C++ is going to stay for a very long time (it is going to stay even if that was the case).

Anyway, does anyone knows the truth about what I said?

-none-

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keep hearing that MS next OS is not going to allow unprotected programs to run or maybe it was programs that are not made with the .NET technology. Is this really true? are MS really going to break there chain of compatibility with older versions of their OS?

if this is the case then MS are going to lose big time and if thats not the case then C++ is going to stay for a very long time (it is going to stay even if that was the case).

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yes, you are in fact correct about what you have just said, with one slight modification : old unmanaged code will still run, but you will get an error message and a prompt asking whether or not you wish to continue running the code.

I also vote for the ending of this thread and other's like it.

Howdy,
I'll bet Liberty will start selling his new java and C# books next week...

M.R.

His newest book:
"Learn to write a "Learn XYZ in 21 days" book in 21 days"

oooh...sounds recursive :D