Suddenly I want to know how many guys here are professional ones who writing codes for their boss.
first, I'm not, but wanna be~:o
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Suddenly I want to know how many guys here are professional ones who writing codes for their boss.
first, I'm not, but wanna be~:o
same here, I think this was asked not too long ago too, ah well.Quote:
Originally posted by black
first, I'm not, but wanna be~:o
yes ? No doubt I missed it~ :pQuote:
Originally posted by MethodMan
same here, I think this was asked not too long ago too, ah well.
I get paid but, I am an intern and I am still learning so I don't exactly consider myself a professional by any means.
ah, if only i was qualified to work for Luxology...well, maybe i am and am just to chicken to apply(as seems the case)... but i don't wanna move to San Francisco.
Ha! It's funny you mention that I was just reading this about 10 minutes ago. If I was going to move to San Fancisco I would have to get a job at the Googleplex. They get free gourmet lunches and you can bring your dog (or any pet) to work with you :)Quote:
Originally posted by no-one
ah, if only i was qualified to work for Luxology...well, maybe i am and am just to chicken to apply(as seems the case)... but i don't wanna move to San Francisco.
>Ha! It's funny you mention that I was just reading this about 10 minutes ago.
my dream job... their gonna revolutionize the industry... again!
oh, man... i am so depressed... so very depressed, some pimply freak is gonna get my dream job.
anyway, since im to lazy to find out, what is googleplex?
> They get free gormet lunches and you can bring your dog (or any pet) to work with you
lunch, mmmmm. but i hate pets, about the only thing i could stand is a cat, the can self-sustain, and depending on how you raise them ( i have help raised about... 10 kittens, five a once as a kid) the will never bother you.
The Googleplex is what they call Googles headquarters. You can also have breakfast, snacks upon request, and they have onsite massage therapists. Oh yeah and a gym/sauna/jacuzzi and they call it work.
hmm... that's interesting, you get a job there put in a good word for me eh?
::edit:: could do very nicely for a substitue dream job.
Well kinda, I do contract work when I can but not too much b/c im in school full time and work as a manager at a subway ;) haha but i guess i do?
Subway submarine sandwiches? I wouldn't mind one of those right now.
damn... do a search before you post a poll... :rolleyes:
Regardless, I do consider myself a professional programmer, as I get paid to produce software.
please get rid of that damn ! :mad:Quote:
Originally posted by ober5861
damn... do a search before you post a poll... :rolleyes:
Regardless, I do consider myself a professional programmer, as I get paid to produce software.
A damn is a technology. There are a couple of sides to thinking about damns. If a damn was not built at all than it wouldn't promote the building of villages or cities in natural disaster areas, however on the positive side, a damn is important to agriculture in dealing with unfavorable cycles of weather, especially draught.
No I'm not..and I'm not sure if I'd want to be (at least not for my entire career).
I am, for now... I'd like to do this for awhile (20 years or so), and then quit, go back to school at around 40, and totally start over doing something different... Teaching history or something.
Govtcheez, you want to be in school when you are 40 years old? That must be a joke.
Seriously... I mean, it's not like I'd live on campus or join a frat or something, but I think 20 years as an engineer would allow me to put away a little to go back to school with.
I don't want to ever believe that computers are the only important thing to me out there - I want to expand my knowledge way past that, and help expand it to other people.
hmm... nah. If the board doesn't censor it, why should you?Quote:
Originally posted by black
please get rid of that damn ! :mad:
Computers in the work environment is not much more than learning how to use some system supported tools, but on the other hand if you wanted to continually learn about a subject like computer technology than research and development would probably be more suitable. There is no telling where that would take you but it would certainly cross into several fields of study.
This is almost exactly how I'm thinking. I've got 2 years under my belt already. I'd like to believe there is a point where I can reasonably retire early and do something else. I don't think it would be school again though. I learn more from a $50 purchase at barnes and noble than I ever did from a class.Quote:
Originally posted by Govtcheez
I am, for now... I'd like to do this for awhile (20 years or so), and then quit, go back to school at around 40, and totally start over doing something different... Teaching history or something.
edit: oh and yes, I'm a professional coder
College is best at introducing you to a wide array of concepts. The scope is much geater than what you would be able to pick up from focusing only on computer related books that you thought were good.
If you attend of group, even a group like here at cprogramming than you will increase the scope of your knowledge. In a way that is why I was pressing for a new board design. I won't say anymore about it.
At any rate, the reason why I don't know if I would want to attend College past the age of about 30 is that it might be uncomfortable being a lot older than the other students.
But aren't you only a couple years younger than that, anyways?
I can see that it would be a little odd to be in there with people so much younger, but I think it'd be a unique, interesting experience.
Well due to globalization, the developed world is becomming knowledge workers and specialization of labor is being exported to underdeveloped countries because more product can be created cheaper (and shared). It's difficult to get by without an education here in Canada, that's why I went to College. I'm getting old, but I'm not quite that old. I just have to make sure I shave my beard regularly.
> I just have to make sure I shave my beard regularly.
I should start doing that more regularly... At least trimming... I'm starting to look like a UNIX developer...
Well, I have a diploma in computer science and I'm more than capable to do the job, but I have no working experience and no one is willing to give me a chance to prove myself and get experience.
The other thing that happens when you get a little bit older, is that it's easier to gain weight, so make sure to keep exercising.
The Unix guys are too independant to pay for haircuts.
> The Unix guys are too independant to pay for haircuts.
lol - yeah - they won't go to a barber unless they gets the blueprints for the scissors and the haircut for free... :D
You should concentrate on the solutions being used by the vendors. You than have to keep up with the changes. Those solutions are currently called Java and .net. If you are proficient in either of those solutions than you will get hired.Quote:
Originally posted by biosninja
Well, I have a diploma in computer science and I'm more than capable to do the job, but I have no working experience and no one is willing to give me a chance to prove myself and get experience.
The requirements that formed these systems came from corporations. They represent what corporations want.
As a side note. A technology such as the .net framework integrates systems (constructed in C/C++). The solution that you build is built ontop of servers (for example a web service), and therefore they are very powerful.
If you hang around here you will not recieve too much of this kind of help because people don't quite know what they are doing here, but that will change. This is the right place to be if you know what you want.
so dean, you help people who don't know what they want? interesting. The reason nobody talks about "solutions" and other marketing buzz-words around here is that they are all programmers with very literal, logical minds and the hypothetical nonsense you've been spouting is of no importance to them. There's nothing wrong with that way of thinking. You really should realize that and stop trying to change us into you.
From what I've seen of your code and general thinking, your doing okay, and you are not shoving a knife into yourself as much as I thought you would, however you have much growing to do and I think that you will realize that you will have to change several of your strategies in time.
If you were wondering what a solution was, than it is a generic term for an application. A system is a solution as well but it is designed to support higher level solutions (Driven top down by high level logic business and domain requirements). In most cases when I use the word solution it is an application that is leveraging one or more systems.
you see, that's why you aren't getting it. We ALL know what "solutions" is but we don't use the term because we know it's just a buzz-word. It's popular to people who don't really know what they are talking about. Marketing people. You're the one who's always ranting about how people shouldn't be slaves to marketing and you're acting just like one of them!
As far as changing my strategies. My strategies change per-project. I happen to hang out here because my job is C/C++ programming in Win32. That's where I'm focussed because IT'S MY JOB. You don't need to teach these people dean. Many of them know quite a bit more than you think. That's what I keep trying to tell you.
Here's an interesting little article illustrating why we (programmers) find the way you (Troll_King) talk silly.
http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stor...634942,00.html
I didn't read this entire post but I don't really think Troll_King is full of it. I think his signature makes sense and I don't think he should be ridiculed for it. Now I am going to go back and read the rest of this thread...
Isn't that more or less correct?Quote:
By Troll_King:
You should concentrate on the solutions being used by the vendors. You than have to keep up with the changes. Those solutions are currently called Java and .net. If you are proficient in either of those solutions than you will get hired.
EDIT:
if talking about systems vs solutions is hypothetical nonsense that means that it doesn't really happen right? But I thought that people who program with Java and .NET are writing programs to specifically solve a problem, or produce something. Isn't that true? I think that's all Troll_King is trying to say. If that is the case then it isn't really Hypothetical Nonsense is it? On the other hand the people who work for microsoft who built .net were System programmers, I mean they built .net and system is just a generic term to describe it. system and solution are generic but the way troll_king defines them makes sense to me and they don't seem like hypothetical nonsense to me.Quote:
By Brain:
...hypothetical nonsense
shadow, every so often TK says something rational, then he acts like a know it all retard. You quoted something rational (although full of the previously mentioned buzzwords). Here's a better example of what you should have noticed if you read the thread.Quote:
Originally posted by Troll_King
If you hang around here you will not recieve too much of this kind of help because people don't quite know what they are doing here, but that will change.
That's true, the quote you pointed out isn't very realistic..hmm i guess I stop trying to back up TK then
EDIT:
On the other hand, isn't .NET a System? Aren't the programs written with Java and .NET more or less Solutions? Think about System and Solution as generic terms...this has nothing to do with TK anymore cuz he is kind of a doof.
hypothetical just means that it doesn't apply directly to a specific, real example. And most programmers come here for answers to specific, real problems. Dean has a habit of trying to stop them from thinking about their problem and start thinking about the overall picture of computer science, as if that has anything to do with what they asked.
Ohh, well that just isn't good now is it? I see what everyone is saying, I suck...see because I agree with you Fill, but I also buy into what TK says (not when he insults people or anything, just Systems and Solutions)...Maybe I should become a split personality between Fill and TK
I'm not dueling with Dean here! I was just trying to convince him that he doesn't need to try to teach everyone how to think.
If you are a Win32 programmer I can see why you don't like what I have to say. That is quickly becoming an outdated form of developing solutions on vendor platforms.
I use models to focus more effectively on problems. It's kind of like a technology that the mind is capable of producing and it is not limited to the area of computer science. I created those terms myself, 'solution' and 'system'.
Take Win32, well it is not an obsolete way to program on the Microsoft operating system quite yet, however it's role is now to extend the functionality of solutions developed on the .net framework. Microsoft is building the systems, and integrating them, with a middleware component (which I would rename an 'Object' ...but I haven't decided that name for sure). At any rate, it is extremely important that solutions developed on that platform leverage systems (for example servers: web, email, database,...). This is what corporations asked for, and it allows them to make their work processes digital.
I tried.
I want to open some horizons to invention but first just become familiar with all of the ideas being researched. It would be great to examine operating system clustering, real time systems, distributed systems and even handheld technologies. I don't want to do these things just through learning vendor tools, but I would like to be able to implement them myself or at least in hand with open source research.
Microsoft and the like are things that I want to get away from. The C/C++ languages are predominately used for research and development, and the building of systems. I would like to support that broad based strategy.That is what this langauge is for.
>I want to open some horizons to invention but first just become familiar with all of the ideas being researched<
Crapola. In a thread a few weeks ago you didn't see the distinction between something as simple as a list vs. a contiguous memory array. In order to sail over new horizons you've got to be able to use a compass.
>I don't want to do these things just through learning vendor tools, but I would like to be able to implement them myself or at least in hand with open source research. <
You don't have to learn anything through vendors. That's what your comp sci course is for. Buy a load of text books and perhaps make it through the first couple of chapters.
I still kind of see what TK is getting at (I think). Isn't he trying to say that he wants to build his own systems? He wants to build his own '.NET' or whatever. If that is what he is saying then I guess I agree with him. The C/C++ languages are for research and development, or for building your own 'systems' (yes I'm getting tired of Systems and Solutions but they are easy). On the other hand I think Fill shouldn't be bashed for being a Win32 developer. I think that's a fine profession. And it's not like he's inferior, quite the contrary, he's probably more capable of building his own systems (we're talking about Brain here) if he wanted to. And it's not like any one person has all the answers to the direction that software should go in. Was that at least somewhat on the right track?
Hey Fill, how did you start learning Win32? (you are a winapi developer correct?) Did you start learning it in college? How many hours per day do you work? Is work consistently available for you? Do you like cheese?
>Isn't he trying to say that he wants to build his own systems? <
Perhaps. Perhaps he's just spouting propaganda. Perhaps we have the next Bill Gates (would you kill him now?). Perhaps he's just talking sh't, man, to cover his own asss.
>He wants to build his own '.NET' or whatever<
If he does then he's no idea of how many man hours are involved.I'm alright though. I've got the longevity pill.
>I agree with him. The C/C++ languages are for research and development<
No. They're for programming. As soon as they're R&D then see yaa COBOL.
*thought better of it and edited the sick nazi joke*
I know the difference between an array and a list Enmerdemonkey.
Sorry but I'm not interested in learning a system interface unless I can study the implementation.
>I know the difference between an array and a list Enmerdemonkey.<
But how does it fit your politics?
>Sorry but I'm not interested in learning a system interface unless I can study the implementation.<
I suppose either would be a start.
I don't know monkey, I actually have no idea what you are talking about. Does anyone? <ape sounds>Quote:
Originally posted by Enmeduranki
>I know the difference between an array and a list Enmerdemonkey.<
But how does it fit your politics?
I can't say this more clearly. I do not want to use Microsoft!!!
>I don't know monkey, I actually have no idea what you are talking about. Does anyone? <ape sounds>
Does anybody care?
>I can't say this more clearly. I do not want to use Microsoft!!!<
Does anybody care?
>You are stupid<
Does anybody care?
Well, yes it makes my visits to cprogramming more amusing. Keep it up.
Remember I don't live in a poor country. Even though corporations like Microsoft dumped operating systems on my like Win9x, which are not good quality, as least my culture didn't get dominated. I only use the Microsoft OS on my notebook computer because it was dumped on me when I bought the system. It won't say on there for too long though.
I don't support any vendor systems. I would rather learn to build my own. Why is that sooo difficult to handle for you?
But I'll think you'll find that my ........ is far more yellow than yours. What better test of constitution of a man?
>as least my culture didn't get dominated<
LMAO, I'll guess you're on your way to Quebec right now. Right? Aww, come on play the game.
>Why is that sooo difficult to handle for you?<
nufinks too difficult. Makin fun of self importaaaant dicks is fuuuun.
Yes?
Like I said, I don't follow what it is that you want.
>Like I said, I don't follow what it is that you want.<
I want your soul. Are you too thick headed to realise this? Maybe there's a good solution for this? Maybe? Probably maybe?
You want my soul because you don't have one? I think that you should just take my advice, you'll be way better off for it in the long run.
Naw, I want your soul because you're so easily led. Have you ever had an original thought?
I'll make a program at my institution that'll show these guys what I mean someday. I'll make loads of money/weight/whatever. That'll be the day. Who'll be laughing at me then?
Beat me up Dean, you retard.
I started learning Win32 from some version of Petzold quite some time ago. I REALLY learned it on the job. When you have to develop and debug on a large project you start to realize how everything fits together a lot better.Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow12345
Hey Fill, how did you start learning Win32? (you are a winapi developer correct?) Did you start learning it in college? How many hours per day do you work? Is work consistently available for you? Do you like cheese?
College had nothing to do with my WinAPI training. Courses in college are far more theoretical (but yes, useful). They don't teach programming as much as they probably should in a Computer Science program. We used mostly PASCAL.
full time programmer. 8-9 hours 5 days a week. Work is more scarce now than it was two years ago but I'm not too worried (of course I'm not out of work right now :) ).
Yes, I like cheese. In fact I was furious today when I sent my wife to get Subway subs. I asked for turkey+swiss sub and found out THEY DON'T HAVE SWISS? How could a sandwich shop not have swiss cheese!?!? This is an outrage.
can I go now? ;)
You sound like a bigger **** head than golfinguy. That is a difficult thing to accomplish, congratulations.Quote:
Originally posted by Enmeduranki
Naw, I want your soul because you're so easily led. Have you ever had an original thought?
I'll make a program at my institution that'll show these guys what I mean someday. I'll make loads of money/weight/whatever. That'll be the day. Who'll be laughing at me then?
Beat me up Dean, you retard.
Uhh, calm down children. I dont' see what is wrong with Windows and Microsoft first of all. Secondly I don't see any point for TK to build his own system when good ones already exist...I doubt anyone who wants to build their own operating system although at the same time I have a 'more power to ya' attitude about it. Thirdly I don't really care about anything I just want to end up developing and having fun (which hasn't been happening lately). Fourthly I don't see why they don't teach some kind of windows programming. Fifthly...what do you do all day Fill? I mean do you really sit down and develop stuff for the majority of your work day? How long has it (on average) taken you to finish a project? Do you work as a team? I am really interested in finding more out about what real developing is all about. Any information you can spare about the nature of your job in particular would just tickle me all sorts of colors, it really would :)
TK I think you are a loser with a small weiner, you remind me of me a year ago when I thought I was all big and bad because I knew rambus operated at 800MHz, but I didn't realize that it was 16bit architecture and I was stupid and got the crap kicked out of me and you deserve to have the crap kicked out of you and your intestines pulled out your nose. i'm even getting sick of system...if I see the 's' word one more time I am going to go outside and scream so loud you'll need earplugs to take a crap...bye
Developing software for embedded systems is my job and I like it very much. Though I hope I once will get to the level of architect and concentrate more on the general aspects of a system instead of the low level details.
>I am really interested in finding more out about what real
>developing is all about.
That depends on the organisation where you work. Our company does the whole traject from requirements to installation of the product. Currently I'm working in a big team on the software for an infotainment system to be used in a new car. Developing software in such consumer electronics is far different from developing software to be used in industries. Consumer electronics products have a short life-time and must be developed in a short time. Mobile phones projects for example sometimes run for a year or even shorter. Software for a factory machine can take many years.
Momently, sitting behind my desk and developing software (designing and coding) is the majority of my daily work. A few times a day I'll go to the lab to test my software and sometimes, ofcourse, there is that stuff called meetings.
The languages we're using are mainly C++ and Java and sometimes C and ASM.
>I dont' see what is wrong with Windows and Microsoft
The company is acting quite aggressive when it comes to marketing. That can be irritating. Also irritating is that they force you to do everything in the Microsoft way, in case you are using Windows. Or, if you're a company, you're using Microsoft software.
However, I don't know if that's wrong. In my opinion a company has the right to take the chances it sees to grow. Microsoft has seen possibilities to grow and it has taken them and it grew huge. As can be seen from the company's history, it also had luck. Luck compared with efficient bussiness made it big and current marketing strategy keeps it big.
But, ofcourse, one can wonder if the company must grow. It's all about earning money and they have more than enough money. On the other hand, they give people work.
Their technology isn't bad, the new BMW has Windows CE running and they're very positive about it. It seems to be very stable. In the car branche they now introduced Car.NET, I'm really curious how it will develop.
I don't use Microsoft at all, why would I do that? lol!!!!
Shadow, the work day is pretty much dealing with a small development team in my case. There is a single product which is our current focus. Although bugs show up in other products we've worked on in the past. One of two of us ends up working on the bug. Really it's just what the boss wants our team to work on at any given time.
::This thread is annoying with all the arguing now by the way::
The question of how long a project takes is kind of a difficult one to answer. Projects can be new products (rare), adding features to a new version (pretty common), and fixing bugs in existing versions (VERY common in this ol' junky code). A new version takes a good year of solid work I guess. Maybe more, maybe less. I don't know. Obviously it depends on the product and the team. Point being, ignore the last paragraph.
Dean take some time out and read and do the excercises to http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-te...ml#%_toc_start
How less vender specific can you be? I don't even know
a commercial implementation of scheme off hand.