Program that can write its own code in C++

Hello everyone, i am quite new to this forum but im not new to the idea of programming. Ive looked around on the internet for some code that can write itself or even duplicate its self, but so far i havent found anything. Does anyone have any idea about how i might go about making code that can do such a thing?

P.S.

i know its possible, because some AI's do it, however their code is much bigger than what im looking for because they are looking to learn, im just looking for the basic code that can write something into itself while its running, based on what i give it.

Yes, but discussing this sort of stuff runs against site guidelines. Follow this link and look at point 6.

While there is the occasional benign application of such techniques, the majority of intended applications are not benign (trojan horses, virii, etc). That is why there is little information out there about how to do it, and why it won't be discussed here.

Well... to be honest i had no idea that that was the case, i didnt realize that this kind of code was used for virus'. Alright... well is there a place in which i can look at the syntax's for C++ and their functions? if not, or if you guys need to delete this post.

On this site, if you look near the top of the screen, there are links to getting started with C and C++, and all sorts of things.

If you use google, and search for terms line "introduction C" you'll also get a wealth of information.

Are you referring to quines, which are programs that print their own source code.

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Originally Posted by Salem

Are you referring to quines, which are programs that print their own source code.

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From the wording " im just looking for the basic code that can write something into itself while its running, based on what i give it.", I doubt the question was about quines. It strikes me as more self-modifying or self-replicating executables.

grumpy has it right, quines are rather simple because you can just use cout << to express all the source code

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

grumpy has it right, quines are rather simple because you can just use cout << to express all the source code

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Have you tried writing a quine before? I wouldn't call it that simple (until you see the "trick", that is).

Why do you want self-modifying code? What are you trying to do?

No i havent tried writing a quine before... but if i did i would mostly use cout << "source code here\n" + "more source code" and that kind of thing. the reason i want self-modifying code is so that i can make neurons. im sorta obsessed with the brain and with AI, so i figured that i would make a program that has some of basic functions of neurons and that it would be able to add to its own code as time goes on as well make new neurons if i gave it the code to, also because neurons are vary complicated and change often i would need the self-modify code so that it can edit and change itself, and also it saves me the trouble of writing all the possible code for each and every neuron ._.

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No i havent tried writing a quine before

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If you haven't tried writing one before then it's pretty stupid for you to say that it's easy.

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but if i did i would mostly use cout << "source code here\n" + "more source code" and that kind of thing.

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Good luck with that! Clearly you haven't considered the problems.

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im sorta obsessed with the brain and with AI

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Who isn't?

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so i figured that i would make a program that has some of basic functions of neurons and that it would be able to add to its own code as time goes on as well make new neurons if i gave it the code to, also because neurons are vary complicated and change often i would need the self-modify code so that it can edit and change itself, and also it saves me the trouble of writing all the possible code for each and every neuron

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Overall, your "idea" is simply not very well thought out. You certainly don't need self-modifying code. It looks like you've put as much thought into this as you have into writing a quine.

You may want to read up on how AI actually works before assuming it is code that rewrites itself. If you really want to write code that is self modifying, try an interpreted language like Python (it's a language feature).

in AI, a neuron is a data structure, and a particular logical arrangement of neurons exhibits a particular behavior. you could say that linking up neurons in a particular arrangement might be equivalent to writing code, but it is not necessary to have a self-modifying program to do that.

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Originally Posted by Elkvis

in AI, a neuron is a data structure, and a particular logical arrangement of neurons exhibits a particular behavior. you could say that linking up neurons in a particular arrangement might be equivalent to writing code, but it is not necessary to have a self-modifying program to do that.

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Im not trying to make AI out of neurons, i would however like to make neurons because it would be interesting to do. now i cant run them because it would take all of my laptops computing power just to run 1 neuron because of all the equations involved, however i would like to make a program that can generate neurons in a cluster that look identical to the brain. and no im not going to try to render all 100,000,000,000 of them and their 10,000 to 200,000 connections. i would only like to render a few of them and then make it be able to render more if i so desired. now i could potentially do this without self-modifying code but i feel that it is way over complicated to write all the code that would be able to handle as all the different neurons. because within each neuron i would like them to keep track of their connections, and process and such.

And OogaBooga
I was wrong about only being able to use cout to make a quine because of the infinite lines problem. However from what i under stand of quines is that it just uses strings, cout, and for loops to accomplish the printing of its own code.

But yes i have thought out my idea of writing code for neurons. however im more used to thinking in terms of logic gates rather than programming and with logic gates i can make what i describing, but with this i dont know all the words, i dont know all the Syntax or how it all fits together.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

i cant run them because it would take all of my laptops computing power just to run 1 neuron because of all the equations involved

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where did you get that idea? a neuron is a relatively simple, and computationally inexpensive data structure. in fact, a single neuron is quite useless.

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Originally Posted by Elkvis

where did you get that idea? a neuron is a relatively simple, and computationally inexpensive data structure. in fact, a single neuron is quite useless.

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Henry Markram: A brain in a supercomputer | Video on TED.com

Here is where i got it, i suggest watching it

So let's start with

Code:

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const int MAX_NEURONS = 10;
neurontype neurons[MAX_NEURONS];
for ( i = 0 ; i < MAX_NEURONS ; i++ ) evalneuron(neurons[i]);

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As an alternative to

Code:

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neurontype n1,n2,n3,n4,n5,n6,n7,n8,n9,n10;
evalneuron(n1);
evalneuron(n2);
evalneuron(n3);
evalneuron(n4);
evalneuron(n5);
evalneuron(n6);
evalneuron(n7);
evalneuron(n8);
evalneuron(n9);
evalneuron(n10);

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Now, changing the first one to process 20 neurons is as simple as changing 10 into 20.
Changing the first one to process a number specified by the user at runtime is very easy.

Doing either of these things with the second code involves massive code edits in the first instance, and is basically impossible in the second.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

Henry Markram: A brain in a supercomputer | Video on TED.com

Here is where i got it, i suggest watching it

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Reading the synopsis, that is a project to "model components of the mammalian brain to precise cellular detail". Elkvis is talking about the concept of neural networks in software that is inspired by the neural networks in "the mammalian brain". The former is a specific project that has little to do with a "program that can write its own code in C++" (modeling cellular replication does not have to require such a property of a program); the latter is more in the realm of (traditional) AI.

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Originally Posted by Salem

So let's start with

Code:

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const int MAX_NEURONS = 10;
neurontype neurons[MAX_NEURONS];
for ( i = 0 ; i < MAX_NEURONS ; i++ ) evalneuron(neurons[i]);

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As an alternative to

Code:

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neurontype n1,n2,n3,n4,n5,n6,n7,n8,n9,n10;
evalneuron(n1);
evalneuron(n2);
evalneuron(n3);
evalneuron(n4);
evalneuron(n5);
evalneuron(n6);
evalneuron(n7);
evalneuron(n8);
evalneuron(n9);
evalneuron(n10);

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Now, changing the first one to process 20 neurons is as simple as changing 10 into 20.
Changing the first one to process a number specified by the user at runtime is very easy.

Doing either of these things with the second code involves massive code edits in the first instance, and is basically impossible in the second.

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referring to the top one, i would like a program that doesnt have a set number, so i think it should be possible if the program meets some kind of requirements to change the 10 into an variable and then whenever the program runs it can keep adding onto itself. However does eval allow me to create different kinds of if's and for's and while's within each of the evalneurons?
guess to word that simpler, can i put code inside each evalneuron?

Well the point of my idea of creating neurons is so that i can eventually simulate the brain or recreate the structure of a brain and then hopefully bring the neurons to life and see what happens as they make new connections and "learn". and so the idea of being able to write a program that can write its own code is my version of trying to some day bring a computer to life. the reason i want a program to be able to write itself is so that it can come up with its own idea of neuron paths and then make those as well re-code its self to be even smarter. however this is way down the line, in a time in which the computers will be powerful for such a massive "program".

I don't plan on make this any day soon, but i figure i might as well get started early

> so i think it should be possible if the program meets some kind of requirements to change the 10 into an variable and then whenever the program runs it can keep adding onto itself.
No problem with that.
Just have one of
std::vector<neurontype> neurons;
std::list<neurontype> neurons;
and you can have an expanding or contracting number of neurons as you go.

> guess to word that simpler, can i put code inside each evalneuron?
You can make it do whatever you want, based on whatever instance data each neuron contains.

Polymorphism - C++ Documentation
Your list of neurons can be just a base class common to all neurons, but each derived class of specialised neurons can have it's own implementation of evalneuron for each specific kind of neuron you want to simulate.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

referring to the top one, i would like a program that doesnt have a set number, so i think it should be possible if the program meets some kind of requirements to change the 10 into an variable and then whenever the program runs it can keep adding onto itself.

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It is possible to dynamically resize a standard container, such as a vector. For example;

Code:

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#include <iostream>
#include <vector>
//  declarations of neurontype here
int main()
{
    int number;
   
    std::cin >> number;  //  read number from stdin
    std::vector<neurontype> neurons(number);

    int newnumber;
    std::cin >> newnumber;

    neurons.resize(newnumber);

    for (int i = 0; i < newnumber; ++i)  do_something(neuron[i]);
}

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

However does eval allow me to create different kinds of if's and for's and while's within each of the evalneurons?
guess to word that simpler, can i put code inside each evalneuron?

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You're mixing concepts here very badly.

For example, you need to distinguish between behaviour of a neuron that depends on some parameter, and the behaviour that different types of neurons have.

There is a difference between saying "if neuron A is given stimulus with value X, then it does action Y" and "if any neuron type of type T is given a stimulus S, then it performs action Z".

The first type of logic can be implemented by testing variables (normal program control structures like if statements and loop constructs). The second type of logic can be implemented in functions that affect all neurons of type T, but not neurons of type W (eg member functions of class named T).

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

Well the point of my idea of creating neurons is so that i can eventually simulate the brain or recreate the structure of a brain and then hopefully bring the neurons to life and see what happens as they make new connections and "learn". and so the idea of being able to write a program that can write its own code is my version of trying to some day bring a computer to life. the reason i want a program to be able to write itself is so that it can come up with its own idea of neuron paths and then make those as well re-code its self to be even smarter. however this is way down the line, in a time in which the computers will be powerful for such a massive "program".

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What you are trying to do does not require a program that can write its own code. It requires a program that is structured in a way so it can adapt the behaviour of objects it models (or represents) based on inputs and outputs.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

I don't plan on make this any day soon, but i figure i might as well get started early

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I suggest you're jumping the gun with your dream.

I suspect the basic ideas you have can be implemented without too much trouble in any programming language. However, you need to describe your model (how neurons work, how they interact, etc) much more precisely. Then you need to translate that description into code (in your selected language). That requires more knowledge of software engineering, and of C++ (if you choose to use C++), than you have. You therefore also need to spend some time learning the basics of C++ (or whatever language you choose to use), without thinking about neurons. Learn how to map ideas from what you might write on paper into something that can be implemented in code.

Sorry my idea of programming and concepts is a still very crude because i'm trying to transfer over from using Logic gates to do tasks to using code.

I would like to try the first one the "if neuron A is given stimulus with value X, then it does action Y" after i figure out how do such a thing.

Im guessing i need adaptive code then? or something along those lines.

I could be jumping the gun on my idea.

I may not have the exact idea about how neurons work, but ive got a fairly good idea and im also getting a book that goes over the "workings" of a neuron. I think the description into code wont be that hard, but the knowledge of the language is the hard part for me at the moment.

Maybe you should just get started with learning how to program then. If you want to use C++, then a book like Accelerated C++ would be a place to start.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

I would like to try the first one the "if neuron A is given stimulus with value X, then it does action Y" after i figure out how do such a thing.

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Firstly, you would need to characterise the stimulus, what its "value" is, and what action is required. The precise implementation then depends on how those things are described, but could well result in code that looks line

Code:

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  if (Stimulate(a_neuron, X)) PerformAction(a_neuron);

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Of course, the details of what is in the Stimulate() function, what type X is (an integer, a floating point variable, a compound type) and in the details of how PerformAction() is implemented.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

Im guessing i need adaptive code then? or something along those lines.

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You're just guessing. Just because the term "adaptive neural code" is used in literature about neurons, doesn't mean there is a similar concept in C++. And, in fact, there isn't. So you have to unambiguously specify how to implement that concept.

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Originally Posted by Vacrin

I may not have the exact idea about how neurons work, but ive got a fairly good idea and im also getting a book that goes over the "workings" of a neuron. I think the description into code wont be that hard, but the knowledge of the language is the hard part for me at the moment.

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That is my point. You need to learn what software development is about. You're assuming that your imprecise description of neuron behaviour can be turned into code. Your assumption is incorrect. It is not possible to reliably create anything (be it a small bit of software or a skyscraper) unless you understand how to.

True true grumpy. Alright well guess ill get started on learning a programming language. Thank you everyone