Cost of programming

This is my personal view, and I am interested what the rest of you make of it.

Any budding computer programmer need the tools first to do the job. I am speaking about the developemnt environment. If you dont use Dev-C++ or code::blocks as your IDE, why should Microsoft force any beginner to shell out X amount to get a proffessional version of a product they endourse?

I understand you can freely download the express editions but these do not hold as many features as the proffesional versions do. All I am trying to say, is why is computer software so expensive?

Millions of us use a computer, yet the companies still think we can all afford over 200.00 for a software package. Look at how much the full versoin Adobe charge for Photoshop.

Is it all to cover the cost of production? Video games dont cost 100+ to buy.

I believe it's because they can get away with it. These tools costs a fortune, just like video games, to make.

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Any budding computer programmer need the tools first to do the job. I am speaking about the developemnt environment. If you dont use Dev-C++ or code::blocks as your IDE, why should Microsoft force any beginner to shell out X amount to get a proffessional version of a product they endourse?

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Microsoft does offer student versions of their software, including the professional editions. Other than that, I note that the Express editions are intended for beginners and hobbyists.

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Video games dont cost 100+ to buy.

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True, but the supply for video games is higher than the supply for development tools, and it is more straightfoward to earn a living using development tools to develop and sell software than by playing video games to win cash prizes and such.

For a beginner, the express versions are as fully featured for their needs as possible. Also most students learning programming in universities have access to Visual Studio professional via Academic alliance I downloaded it just the other day for free.

But assessing cost for software probably is a difficult choice. Games generally are priced what they are because the scope of what they provide the consumer are limited (generally limited hours of gameplay wise) while development tools have a seemingly unlimited amount of value for the consumer if they use it right.

I don't know, I used the express version of visual C# for a windows programming course and was fine.

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Originally Posted by swgh

This is my personal view, and I am interested what the rest of you make of it.

Any budding computer programmer need the tools first to do the job. I am speaking about the developemnt environment. If you dont use Dev-C++ or code::blocks as your IDE, why should Microsoft force any beginner to shell out X amount to get a proffessional version of a product they endourse?

I understand you can freely download the express editions but these do not hold as many features as the proffesional versions do. All I am trying to say, is why is computer software so expensive?

Millions of us use a computer, yet the companies still think we can all afford over 200.00 for a software package. Look at how much the full versoin Adobe charge for Photoshop.

Is it all to cover the cost of production? Video games dont cost 100+ to buy.

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MS doesn't force anyone to buy anything.

I can't believe that anyone is complaining about the cost to begin software development. You already listed some free options, INCLUDING one from the Evil Microsoft (tm). You can also get dozens of free libraries, utilities, frameworks, etc. if you seek them.

Starting a software development hobby/business is about the least expensive one I can think of.

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Originally Posted by Elysia

I believe it's because they can get away with it.

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Get away with it? Why does it have to be so duplicitous? They provide a product for a price, and consumers decide whether or not to buy it. Just like every other business.

Yes, but as other things, some software are overpriced. Is photoshop overpriced? Definitely. Why is it overpriced? Because they can get away with it.

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Originally Posted by swgh

This is my personal view, and I am interested what the rest of you make of it.

Any budding computer programmer need the tools first to do the job. I am speaking about the developemnt environment. If you dont use Dev-C++ or code::blocks as your IDE, why should Microsoft force any beginner to shell out X amount to get a proffessional version of a product they endourse?

I understand you can freely download the express editions but these do not hold as many features as the proffesional versions do. All I am trying to say, is why is computer software so expensive?

Millions of us use a computer, yet the companies still think we can all afford over 200.00 for a software package. Look at how much the full versoin Adobe charge for Photoshop.

Is it all to cover the cost of production? Video games dont cost 100+ to buy.

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Well. Computer is an intangible asset.
Suppose some one buys one thousand blank papers for say $10.
Then he buys a pen for say $5.
Now he writes an excellent book, and gets $100,000 for it.

Will you argue with him that since the cost was only $15, he should not be given more than, say, $50 ?

Same in computer software. I am not very good at explaining things :confused:

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Originally Posted by Elysia

Yes, but as other things, some software are overpriced. Is photoshop overpriced? Definitely. Why is it overpriced? Because they can get away with it.

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One man's overpriced is another man's bargain. It's all relative. They sell it for a price that the market will bear.

> Yes, but as other things, some software are overpriced. Is photoshop overpriced? Definitely. Why is it overpriced? Because they can get away with it.
Not really, it does a lot of stuff and is pretty complex in design, UI and various algorithms.

Don't forget it's not just the product you're buying, but techincal support, research into algorithms, etc.

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Originally Posted by swgh

If you dont use Dev-C++ or code::blocks as your IDE

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Of course there are a lot (and I mean a lot) of other options. I use EditPlus and command line gcc and I only paid $35 for the EditPlus license. I could have gotten a free text editor but I like EditPlus enough to pay for it.

Getting into programming is not an expensive endeavour.

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Originally Posted by medievalelks

One man's overpriced is another man's bargain. It's all relative. They sell it for a price that the market will bear.

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Originally Posted by zacs7

> Yes, but as other things, some software are overpriced. Is photoshop overpriced? Definitely. Why is it overpriced? Because they can get away with it.
Not really, it does a lot of stuff and is pretty complex in design, UI and various algorithms.

Don't forget it's not just the product you're buying, but techincal support, research into algorithms, etc.

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Yes, but if Adobe was a small company with a product that was competeting with another similar product from a bigger company, they couldn't charge such high prices.
The bigger they become, the higher they can raise the price. If there are no alternatives, they can get away with it because companies are dependant upon the software.

And don't forget - you can get a similar product for a tenth of the price (Paint Shop Pro).

I think MS has the right idea in that they aim to charge people for the IDE that use it for proffesionally, as these people are making money from using it and generally have the means to pay for it. I got VS pro for free as I'm a student, and the express edition can still do most of the stuff novices want anyway. If you dont like it than just don't use it; switch to free/opensource software instead.

Photoshop again is very expensive, but again its targeted at professionals. I think adobe are quite aware that people w/o the means to pay for it don't, but at the end of the day if they use a pirated copy then there is a chance they will get a legit copy at some point whch is more beneficial to them than if the priates were to use another product instead.

> And don't forget - you can get a similar product for a tenth of the price (Paint Shop Pro).
Not really in the same class, different target audience also.

Perhaps. But functionality is quite much the same. They both have very similar features.

I quite like the GIMP, it does pretty much all i want for image editing.

Also it's likely that if you're using pro you're in a work environment and it wasn't bought by you in the first place.

And with your last comment Elysia you defeated your argument, Express has similar features to Pro and is developed by the same company.

RICHARD STALLMAN ALL OVER AGAIN RUN FOR THE HILLS!

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And with your last comment Elysia you defeated your argument, Express has similar features to Pro and is developed by the same company.

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I read it as a comparison between Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, not Visual Studio Professional and Express.

Laserlight is correct. Two different products developed by two different companies.
And Microsoft is also sometimes known to sell a lot of products at a loss, if that explains anything.

Richard Stallman has gotten to him I'm affraid.

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Originally Posted by Elysia

Yes, but if Adobe was a small company with a product that was competeting with another similar product from a bigger company, they couldn't charge such high prices.
The bigger they become, the higher they can raise the price. If there are no alternatives, they can get away with it because companies are dependant upon the software.

And don't forget - you can get a similar product for a tenth of the price (Paint Shop Pro).

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So what's the problem? Just use Paint Shop Pro, or something else, or develop your own. Not sure why Adobe should be demonized for creating a useful product.

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Originally Posted by medievalelks

Not sure why Adobe should be demonized for creating a useful product.

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They should be for overpricing the software, nothing else.
And just for the record, I DO use Paint Shop Pro, because it's so much prettier, and it's so much more stable than adobe software, and it's so much easier to use than adobe software.
Those are my experiences with adobe software.

You don't know it's overpriced... as far as we know they could sell very little and it could cost lots to make.

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Originally Posted by Elysia

They should be for overpricing the software, nothing else.

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Obviously, there are enough people buying the product that it isn't "overpriced" to them. Supply and demand. They aren't in business to give away software, or even make it affordable to everyone.

I don't own a Jaguar, because I can't afford one, but I don't hold it against them. Instead of demanding that they make and XJ-300 affordable to me, I'd rather try to earn enough to be able to own one.

Sticks and stones, obviously. I feel it's overpriced, but I have no technical data to backup that statement, so believe it as you will.

And to you it probably is overpriced, 'nuf said :)

Even to me it's overpriced, but it's not aimed at people like me. Overpriced is a definition based on perspective, whether it's yours or the economys.

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Originally Posted by Elysia

Laserlight is correct. Two different products developed by two different companies.
And Microsoft is also sometimes known to sell a lot of products at a loss, if that explains anything.

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But the idea is the same, you don't want to spend money on an expensive product, buy the less expensive alternative. Except in this case, the less expensive product is free and made by the same company. It actually seems a little...dare I say, noble.

The funny thing is that Microsoft intended the Express products to be free for a certain time, but then they seemed to have extended it to be free always.

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Originally Posted by Elysia

The funny thing is that Microsoft intended the Express products to be free for a certain time, but then they seemed to have extended it to be free always.

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Did Microsoft ever give a reason for this? I mean its a good idea, a possible ploy to purchase the proffesional version maybe? ;)

I don't know what reasons they had for that. Just that originally they were intended to be a free download for everyone within a time period.

The Express editions aim at two things, in my opinion:

- A Microsoft technology showcase.
- And with that an incentive to buy the professional versions.

Seems alright. Prior to the Express Editions one would have to pay, no matter what, to use a Microsoft compiler. So, this is a step forward. One can argue what features should and should not be present in the express editions. I for one think MFC should have been made available. But I'm wrong. And probably anyone else who comes up with other ideas. We are wrong because for every lack of a feature, there is a clear cut reason behind it. For instance, MFC is not made available in the express editions because obviously Microsoft intends to push .Net. Not an easy thing to do if you went and offered MFC for free.

As for the price... I don't know. I always had a somewhat twisted view around the cost of things. The only thing I don't like is the feeling of being ripped of. But other than that, I can accept any price as a just price.

Take the $700 for a professional version. Is it really expensive? I dunno, I've been known of spending 300 on a single night with friends, food, movies and drinking. Anyone here did the same? Probably even worst. So, exactly how much is 700 when one can spend half of that in the course of a week in absolute nothings?

For those with little money and double the skills and motivation, the situation can be more damaging. $700 IS money. But the market operates as it does. You don't sell based on income declarations. Besides, $700 is still really not that much money... 6 months of savings can bring you close to that, if not sooner.

I think... oops... that in fact the general price of software is cheap. Buy a few less games, a few less clothes and hang around the house a little more, and you can start your multi-millionaire business.