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This is a discussion on America within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by std10093 For expressing my own thought? What you fail to appreciate is that your freedom to post ...

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by std10093 View Post
    For expressing my own thought?
    What you fail to appreciate is that your freedom to post crass propaganda doesn't just magically exist.

    It's as a consequence of the existance of free, open and inclusive societies and the fact that their existance has been defended at enormous mind boggling catastrophic cost in terms of human suffering and loss.

    Where is your post? Is it magically sitting on some cloud somewhere labelled "The Free to Post Anything You Like Internet"?

    It's sitting on some server somewhere in, yes, America.

    Do you get that? Your declared right to post anti-American crap is only upheld because America provides you the freedom to do so?
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gemera View Post
    Your declared right to post anti-American crap is only upheld because America provides you the freedom to do so?
    America does not provide that right. The universe and/or the creator (depending on your belief system) does. The United States of America simply recognizes the existence of that right and defends the ability of human beings to exercise it. It's a semantic distinction, but an important one.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gemera View Post
    Do you get that? Your declared right to post anti-American crap is only upheld because America provides you the freedom to do so?
    Aaaaand we've come full circle.
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  4. #49
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    That is a particularly poor argument, I agree.

    Still, posting propaganda is trolling. And the right to free speech does not impede anyone in private from creating rules restricting speech. So there you go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    That is a particularly poor argument, I agree.
    Not only is it a poor argument, it is downright wrong.

    Still, posting propaganda is trolling. And the right to free speech does not impede anyone in private from creating rules restricting speech. So there you go.
    While i don't agree with calling it propaganda, you are right of course.
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    "You are wrong!" is hardly a great scintillating argument in itself.

    Enuf Sed.

  7. #52
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    If American's weren't so scared that the joke was correct maybe they'd take it more humourously. Maybe that's the point though.

    Talk about people with their eyes closed. ;-/

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    Quote Originally Posted by gemera View Post
    "You are wrong!" is hardly a great scintillating argument in itself.

    Enuf Sed.
    Okay - i'll bite.

    Do you get that? Your declared right to post anti-American crap is only upheld because America provides you the freedom to do so?
    The OP's rights to "post anti-American crap" is protected by the greek constitution, since he is from greece. The fact that the CBoard servers are in the US is coincidental, and if the US decided to outlaw online trolling, the OP would be free to troll on sites that isn't hosted in the US. That is why you are wrong.

    In fact, i'd go so far as to say that when it comes to online freedoms, the US government is public enemy number 1. The US ICE is claiming jurisdiction over all sites that use a .com or .net TLD, regardless of where the server is. Then there is the whole DMCA/SOPA/PIPA mess that you guys have going (not to mention S.978) and finally we have the whole NSA matter.

    I'd revise your original quote to this:

    Your declared right to post anti-American crap is only upheld despite Americas best efforts
    Last edited by Neo1; 08-28-2013 at 05:45 AM.
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  9. #54
    SAMARAS std10093's Avatar
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    The intention was not to offend, if so my post would be much more serious. My intention was something between humor and food for thought.

    Do not forget the other face of America, the one of science.

    As whiteflags said: take in mind the audience you are referring to.
    I did²! When I posted, I wanted people of all countries to see this, since the forum hosts people of many countries (something I love in this forum). However, I knew that most of them were Americans, but I said to myself not to be a coward and overcome the reactions of people that claim I do propaganda (you are wrong² in this claim by the way) and thought that, this post may do one or two people(preferable Americans, but I do not think that they can actually change the mind of the government) think again how America behaves in wars and that's what my post's intention was.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPrattlepod View Post
    Talk about people with their eyes closed. ;-/
    As my last word in this thread, think about Syria and the chemical weapons, that as clearly Moscow said: There are no proofs, but America insists that the situation have surpassed the red line!

    PS - Do not argue in the internet, just think of what you saw and criticize it among yourself and your friends. But I know that this will not happen.

    Ciao!
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  10. #55
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    you are wrong² in this claim by the way
    O_o

    Whether your intent was to help, change minds, or hurt, blast citizens of the United States, your post is propaganda by definition.

    think again how America behaves in wars and that's what my post's intention was
    I know how the United States behaves in war: the same as everyone else behaves in war.

    The perception behind your posts here are not just naive but reek of the same arrogance and "deserving" mindset framed by the image you posted.

    The innocents in judgement do not deserve such a death because of the actions of their masters.

    Do not argue in the internet, just think of what you saw and criticize it among yourself and your friends.
    If you aren't willing to argue, you should be banned. Without argument, without taking the time to offer contexts, to cover the concerns of those defending and attacking what you've said, you are just a pathetic, if successful, troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post

    The OP's rights to "post anti-American crap" is protected by the greek constitution, since he is from greece. The fact that the CBoard servers are in the US is coincidental, and if the US decided to outlaw online trolling, the OP would be free to troll on sites that isn't hosted in the US. That is why you are wrong.
    You're unwilling to look at the greater context . There are TWO countries involved. BOTH are free and open societies. Since the backbone, most of the infrastructure and most of the servers are in the US its hardly a coincidence.The freedom of the internet is not divorced from the fact that it is hosted in free n open societies.

    Greece had to be liberated in order to end up with a constitution protecting free speech.

    Your free speech exists because your country was liberated.

    The freedom you seem to take for granted can be directly traced to the fact that:

    The Battle of Midway was won.

    The Battle of Britain was won.

    The Battle of Iwo Jima was won.

    The Battle of the Bulge was won.

    In fact you could probably go back and include the Battle of Gettsburg et al.

    And so the list would go on.


    In fact, i'd go so far as to say that when it comes to online freedoms, the US government is public enemy number 1. The US ICE is claiming jurisdiction over all sites that use a .com or .net TLD, regardless of where the server is. Then there is the whole DMCA/SOPA/PIPA mess that you guys have going (not to mention S.978) and finally we have the whole NSA matter.
    Tell that to the people of North Korea, Cuba et al.

    As far as the Syria situation mentioned by the OP. I happen to disagree with any military action.The situation is too unstable as it is and other means short of military force should be used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gemera View Post
    The Battle of Midway was won.

    The Battle of Britain was won.

    The Battle of Iwo Jima was won.

    The Battle of the Bulge was won.
    all battles are won. from the perspective of the Japanese, the battle of Iwo Jima was lost. it's all a matter of perspective.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    ... you are just a pathetic, if successful, troll.
    You doth protest too much, methinks. Calling people 'troll' seems to be a beloved pastime for you. Assuming you're right when you do, feeding said trolls seems to be just as fun for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    If you aren't willing to argue, you should be banned.
    You sound like you want fed. Hmm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gemera View Post
    You're unwilling to look at the greater context . There are TWO countries involved. BOTH are free and open societies. Since the backbone, most of the infrastructure and most of the servers are in the US its hardly a coincidence.The freedom of the internet is not divorced from the fact that it is hosted in free n open societies.

    Greece had to be liberated in order to end up with a constitution protecting free speech.

    Your free speech exists because your country was liberated.

    The freedom you seem to take for granted can be directly traced to the fact that:

    The Battle of Midway was won.

    The Battle of Britain was won.

    The Battle of Iwo Jima was won.

    The Battle of the Bulge was won.

    In fact you could probably go back and include the Battle of Gettsburg et al.

    And so the list would go on.
    I'm not an expert in modern greek history, but i can tell you that Greece remained a dictatorship until 1974, 29 years after WWII ended, and not as a direct consequence of their liberation from the germans, so that argument is flawed.

    It's all fine and good that the US helped liberate Europe 70 years ago. The fact remains that when it comes to freedom, the US isn't doing so great at the moment. And for you to take credit for the fact that other countries ensure their citizens the right to free speech is laughable when you can't even get it right for your own citizens.

    Tell that to the people of North Korea, Cuba et al.
    The fact that you have to bring up tyrannical dictatorships to counter my point speaks volumes about how backwards the policy of the recent administrations of the US has been in regards to internet freedoms. Your liberties are being picked apart one by one and you remain willfully ignorant. Your argument translates directly into "Meh, atleast we don't have it as bad as North Korea"

    Edit: Besides, you missed my point. Neither Cuba nor North Korea is a threat to my civil liberties nor those of the people of Greece; the US is.
    Last edited by Neo1; 08-28-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    Neither Cuba nor North Korea is a threat to my civil liberties nor those of the people of Greece; the US is.
    O_o

    That only holds so far as other governments are willing to play to the backwards facing political pressure.

    I realize that most governments probably will, to a point, in the short term, but if other governments fight such nonsense themselves the internet should be safe despite nonsense like "SOPA" where it all begins with the citizens of other countries.

    Let me put it this way, everyone should be watching their civil liberties. The US gets the finger in this thread, but many governments have laws in proposal which would seek to control what you see and do online much beyond the reach of traditional law.

    Soma
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