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800 free prints

This is a discussion on 800 free prints within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; I prefer not to...

  1. #16
    SAMARAS std10093's Avatar
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    I prefer not to
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    It’s 2014 and I still use printf() for debugging.


    "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. " —Harold Abelson

  2. #17
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    You know what you could do, print a book on papercraft and then steal the paper you didn't print on for practice. Meta.

  3. #18
    TEIAM - problem solved
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    Print 800 empty pages - Take the empty pages home and use the paper for your printer.
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    Fact - Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C

  4. #19
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    What is all this kerfuffle about?

    The OP didn't say that they had a resource to waste, and ask the best way to waste that resource.

    They said they had an opportunity to get information and asked our opinions about the best kind of information to get.

    I'm as much for the environment as those arguing against this post - but seriously, aren't these arguments a bit much?

    It's as if someone posted, asking, "I have an Amazon gift card, what are some good books I should consider getting?" Would people get all crazy about the environment in that case?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
    But the paper in a printed book is already used! The OP is talking about printing on fresh paper!
    Refusing to print something in order to "save a few trees" is a logical fallacy. Paper is not "made to order," and just refusing to print something does not mean that the paper manufacturers will call the lumberjacks and tell them to cut down one less tree.

    Sure, it's possible to affect change by reaching out to the right people through the appropriate channels, but this argument on this forum is hardly going to do any good to the movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I'm not sold on the whole environmental issue, so that kinda falls on deaf years. But if you are, that sounds exactly like you are part of the problem.
    According to this logic, anyone who wants to buy a physical book is "contributing to the problem." How fair is that? Especially considering your thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    So, I've been reading Paradox: The Nine Greatest Enigmas in Physics, by Jim Al-Khalili...
    ... Or ... is this just another Cprogramming debate without meaning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    ... Or ... is this just another Cprogramming debate without meaning?
    In that case, count me in

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    Refusing to print something in order to "save a few trees" is a logical fallacy.
    Of course it isn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    According to this logic, anyone who wants to buy a physical book is "contributing to the problem."
    You can buy second hand.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    Of course it isn't!
    You countered my assertion, but did not offer any counter-arguments to the statements I made immediately following that sentence.

    Quote: "Paper is not "made to order," and just refusing to print something does not mean that the paper manufacturers will call the lumberjacks and tell them to cut down one less tree.

    Here, the fallacy would be that a < 0.000001 percent consumer would have an effect on the overall paper industry, as described above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics;
    1145721You can buy second hand.
    Okay, how's this:

    According to this logic, anyone who wants to buy a new physical book is "contributing to the problem."
    I'm glad you didn't bring up the e-book [bleh] thing ... people are always uncomfortable when I point out that much of the electricity we use is generated from oil.

    Last edited by Matticus; 01-21-2013 at 09:47 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    You countered my assertion, but did not offer any counter-arguments to the statements I made immediately following that sentence.
    I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    Quote: "Paper is not "made to order," and just refusing to print something does not mean that the paper manufacturers will call the lumberjacks and tell them to cut down one less tree.

    Here, the fallacy would be that a < 0.000001 percent consumer would have an effect on the overall paper industry, as described above.
    Paper is made to order, the paper industry produce in amounts that are in proportion to the demand. The demand is coming from a group of individuals, each buying and using paper.

    Your argument is, in fact the fallacy, your claim is that a particular individual has no impact in a group of other individuals exactly like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    Okay, how's this:

    I'm glad you didn't bring up the e-book [bleh] thing ... people are always uncomfortable when I point out that much of the electricity we use is generated from oil.
    Let's forget about the environment, because the environment is not really what we are talking about.
    Last edited by Subsonics; 01-21-2013 at 09:57 PM.

  8. #23
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    that most of the electricity we use is generated from oil.
    Where is that? I live in Australia, where most of our electricity is produced by coal.

    We are a fairly dumb species in some ways, aren't we...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
    For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much — the wheel, New York, wars and so on — whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man — for precisely the same reasons
    Fact - Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C

  9. #24
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    In that case, count me in
    Sucker!
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    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    Paper is made to order, the paper industry produce in amounts that are in proportion to the demand. The demand is coming from a group of individuals, each buying and using paper.
    That would be a very poor business plan for large commercial paper manufacturers.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Build to order (BTO) and sometimes referred to as make to order (MTO), is a production approach where products are not built until a confirmed order for products is received. BTO is the oldest style of order fulfillment and is the most appropriate approach used for highly customized or low volume products.
    - Build to order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Paper manufacturers are subject to supply and demand (which is different than "made to order"), but it's not as simple as a 1 to 1 translation. They do not take every single paper order and make that much paper for the week. Instead, they use complex formulae based on previous quantities and expected quantities to arrive at a general target product level. The trick is to avoid making too much paper (more inventory counts against the company's assets) and too little paper (obviously they want to satisfy orders).

    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    Your argument is, in fact the fallacy, your claim is that a particular individual has no impact in a group of other individuals exactly like it.
    That was not my claim. If I had to use your wording, though, I would fix it like this: "a particular individual has negligible impact in a massive [in the millions] group of other individuals exactly like it."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    They do not take every single paper order and make that much paper for the week. Instead, they use complex formulae based on previous quantities and expected quantities to arrive at a general target product level. The trick is to avoid making too much paper (more inventory counts against the company's assets) and too little paper (obviously they want to satisfy orders).
    Of course, but if the world suddenly, say, halved it's paper consumption would less paper be made, and consequently less trees be cut down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    That was not my claim. If I had to use your wording, though, I would fix it like this: "a particular individual has negligible impact in a massive [in the millions] group of other individuals exactly like it."
    The thing is, it's not negligible since the group of similar individuals are in the millions. If one person cross a lawn, nothing happens, if thousands of others follows, a path appears, who is responsible for the path?

    Your answer: nobody,
    my answer: everybody.

    Other examples can be made, of say responsibilities in large organizations, or a concept like voting.
    Last edited by Subsonics; 01-22-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  12. #27
    SAMARAS std10093's Avatar
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    26 posts. Not even the half of them are direct answers. And almost all (if not all of the users) that answered are experienced ones. I would like to thank the people that answered as they should do and especially Matticus.

    And as a matter of fact, as a president of the students for many years, I have organized many reforestation and recycling activities (most of them firstly organized by me, especially after the big fire in Mt. Immitos ) (you see that on my CV too).
    My mother, a teacher, has been for years organizing activities for cleaning beaches and the sea, in association with Helmepa and still does.
    My brother, continued the environmental activities when he became the president.

    The point is not to make comments on internet, but really to do something for the environment. I prefer talking with actions, so I stop here.
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  13. #28
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    That was not my claim. If I had to use your wording, though, I would fix it like this: "a particular individual has negligible impact in a massive [in the millions] group of other individuals exactly like it."
    Cut the crap.

    According to those environmentalists, it's these millions plus the industries that serve them that are ruining our oh-so-fragile planet. This makes every single individual as responsible as everyone else. Which results in that single individual actions to be either for or against the planet.

    The problem is one of simple logic.

    * I shall not profess Save The Planet ideology if I don't give the example.

    * I shall not profess Save The Planet ideology, if I believe it's someone else's concern, not mine.

    * I shall not profess Save The Planet ideology, if I'm not ready to change my consumer habits.

    Everything else is open hypocrisy or, worse, laziness. Believing that my impact is so negligible that it won't matter what I do is both.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #29
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by std10093 View Post
    The point is not to make comments on internet, but really to do something for the environment. I prefer talking with actions, so I stop here.
    Yeah. Let us know when you use up those credits, action man.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #30
    SAMARAS std10093's Avatar
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    Poor guy... I do not do them to state them off, I am doing them because they feel right.
    Code - functions and small libraries I use


    It’s 2014 and I still use printf() for debugging.


    "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. " —Harold Abelson

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