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This is going to sound immature

This is a discussion on This is going to sound immature within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; But why is it so wrong to talk about or ask how much money you/someone makes? Are we that judgmental ...

  1. #1
    Registered User camel-man's Avatar
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    This is going to sound immature

    But why is it so wrong to talk about or ask how much money you/someone makes? Are we that judgmental on each other as humans that we devalue people based on how much money they make a year?

    I am genuinely interested in how much money computer programmers make a year, yet no one wants to answer that dreaded question.
    Everything I have read online has been very inconsistent, as far as the yearly salary, which ranges from 40,000 to 120,000(supposedly). However, I have yet to talk to an "actual" programmer about how they feel their company pays them and what to expect when applying for a job of similar position.

    The last thing I want to do is offend anyone, but how am I supposed to know what I will/should be paid when I get out of college?

  2. #2
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    But why is it so wrong to talk about or ask how much money you/someone makes? Are we that judgmental on each other as humans that we devalue people based on how much money they make a year?
    In short, yes.

    It depends a lot on the location. In California I would expect to be paid $90k-$100k. In Vancouver $70k-$80k. And also your skill level. Companies are willing to pay a lot more for highly talented people.

  3. #3
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    The paylevel depends a lot on location. In Germany, between 20K € and 35K € is a good starting salary. That's quite a range, but your spendings depent a lot on location, too. In Munich or Hamburg you will probably be closer to 35K, but your flat will cost about double. In the end, a plain number on a paycheck says nothing. You have to relate it to the costs of living in the area.

    You need enough money to not worry about the next months, but from there on, money is just one factor. And not the largest. Life is to short to be stuck in a job you don't like, no matter how much money is thrown your way. Money can't buy happiness or even satisfaction. A healthy work environment, good colleagues and interesting tasks are top priority atfer deciding which jobs will allow you to go to work without worrying about money.
    hth
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    Nothing wrong with asking me my salary, how much I pay mortgage, taxes, etc. I've always been an advocate that everyone should have their salaries posed on their cubicle. If someone has an issue with being paid less than their neighbor then it's time to take it up with the boss. Employers want to continue to paying people unfairly (over or under paid), which is directly supported by the company's policy against discussing salary. This secrecy is engrained in people and most seem to support it - even though it only benefits the employer.

    Now if you ask me what I make in the particular named company I'm with currently - that may be an issue. It might be a fireable offense to divulge the information publicly on the internet. Again, probably because for whatever reason the company will look bad. Although they'd only have themselves to blame. But among friends - around the dinner table, no problem.

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    Did you see the job advert in the 'Projects and Job Recruitment' section?

    Senior C++ Developers to 500k NY / DC / Chicago

    $500K
    IDE: Code::Blocks | Compiler Suite for Windows: TDM-GCC (MingW, gdb)

  6. #6
    SAMARAS std10093's Avatar
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    cfanatic i saw the relative post... I really hope i will become a hired programmer on day...


    You see programming is my passion. And when you get as a job your passion life gets more beautiful
    There was a really small company from Greece that was interested in my, but they find out about me just before i had to leave Greece for my scholarship... Hope i'll get the chance again, because i have to start from somewhere!Right ?

    So, i just wish i become a real programmer one day...!!

    So camel - man i have no problem to let you know my salary (as a programmer)! It is zero euros

  7. #7
    Registered User C_ntua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by std10093 View Post
    cfanatic i saw the relative post... I really hope i will become a hired programmer on day...


    You see programming is my passion. And when you get as a job your passion life gets more beautiful
    There was a really small company from Greece that was interested in my, but they find out about me just before i had to leave Greece for my scholarship... Hope i'll get the chance again, because i have to start from somewhere!Right ?

    So, i just wish i become a real programmer one day...!!

    So camel - man i have no problem to let you know my salary (as a programmer)! It is zero euros
    I started getting paid as a programmer by freelancing. Not the best for a career, but I think it is interesting while you wait for a job or as part time. Learned a lot from it. Feel free to send me a private message if you want more info


    Quote Originally Posted by nonoob
    Nothing wrong with asking me my salary, how much I pay mortgage, taxes, etc. I've always been an advocate that everyone should have their salaries posed on their cubicle. If someone has an issue with being paid less than their neighbor then it's time to take it up with the boss. Employers want to continue to paying people unfairly (over or under paid), which is directly supported by the company's policy against discussing salary. This secrecy is engrained in people and most seem to support it - even though it only benefits the employer.
    I think it is a double edged sword. In the free market spirit everyone has their market value. You are free to find another job that offers more, the company is free to offer you how much they feel you are worth. You are free to negotiate as well. On the other hand as you said this can also lead to unjust situations between employees and also require employees on top of their daily job to chase after these kind of things. And as you said it is another way for companies to try to hire with low salaries.
    In the end it really matters if you want employees with equal criteria (typically position and years of experience) to get the same salary or you want to add other factors (for example unemployment rate). Which is a classical social and political discussion. Personally, I generally believe that it depends on the kind of job. For low paid jobs I favor more known salaries, for higher paid jobs for salaries to stay secret.

  8. #8
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    I personally wouldn't mind telling people my earnings. I haven't heard a convincing argument for secrecy that didn't involve butthurt prevention.

  9. #9
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    I personally wouldn't mind telling people my earnings. I haven't heard a convincing argument for secrecy that didn't involve butthurt prevention.
    I'm not sure why "butthurt prevention" is such a bad thing.

    It's natural for people to value themselves and each other based on a bunch of different variables, salary being one of them. You can debate whether that's "right" or not if you like, but it won't change it. I'm not saying one must never discuss salary, but be prepared for some potentially very complicated consequences if you do.
    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

  10. #10
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Talking in general is fraught with consequences.
    rags_to_riches likes this.

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