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Vote!

This is a discussion on Vote! within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Just a reminder to all my fellow US citizens on the forum, please get out and vote today. there are ...

  1. #1
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    Vote!

    Just a reminder to all my fellow US citizens on the forum, please get out and vote today. there are many reports of voter fraud already, and a massive turnout of legitimate votes is the only means to combat it. please go and vote. vote for what you believe in. vote for the candidates that will screw things up the least. vote for the candidates that put the country ahead of their own interests. vote with thought, not emotion.

    but above all, VOTE!

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    No thanks.

    In America, we're presented with presidential nominees. Two (representing the two popular parties) are given all the media attention, and since people react predicably to such advertising, those two are the only ones who would ever win. And they are not selected by the people, but instead by the parties and the corporations that sponsor them with obscene contributions.

    American politics is a system, and it is designed to prevent anyone who would fix this country from ever reaching nomination. Anyone who reaches presidency does so with their own agenda, which is typically in favor of the corporations that backed them.

    We might as well cast a vote for coke versus pepsi. Regardless of which "wins," the outcome will basically be the same - the people will be hurt and the winner (and their allies) will profit.

    [/cynical rant]

    I do, however, admire your passion for wanting to make this country well again.

  3. #3
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    You know, not too long ago Ross Perot ran for president and got a significant portion of the vote. It proves that 3rd parties can be successful. Maybe if the people who complained about it went out and voted they could actually accomplish something. But another thing that 3rd party voting does is actually encourage mainstream parties to change. I mean, you have to figure that if a significant portion of the country is independent, that you want to attract those voters to one of the parties.

    In my opinion the worst thing you can do is try to convince other people that they can't change things, if, in fact, they want to change things. Refusing to work with the system will never change the system.

    Besides, a lot of people have this erroneous opinion that they vote for the president; they don't. A lot of people think the POTUS is responsible for more than he actually is (see: economies), and he isn't. The way our system is supposed to work is that it doesn't matter who the president is, your rights are protected. And the only reason there is a popular vote is to determine how the electors should vote for the president.

    It is much more important to understand what is on the ballot in your state and what you want to vote for, rather than just being ignorant your whole life.

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    Well, Ross Perot is a billionaire who didn't need the corporate sponsorship to "deal him in" the presidential game. I'd consider him the exception that proves the rule.

    As a part time slacktivist, I do encourage people to change things. I just don't feel voting for a president, as the game stands now, is a route to effective positive change. My method involves encouraging people to get informed, and like Elkvis stated, to approach it with thought and not emotion. Sadly, though, many people aren't willing to pull their head out of their arse/television/smart phone/shopping malls/sports games/etc to become educated in the state of the country.

    The system is broken, and voting for one of [essentially] two pre-screened selections for presidency won't fix it. The only way I see to possibly fix the system through the system would be to start at the roots and get more educated and caring individuals into our government at the bottom, which would hopefully trickle up to higher and higher positions. But as long as the general public remains willfully ignorant, I don't see that happening any time soon.

    >> The way our system is supposed to work is that it doesn't matter who the president is, your rights are protected.

    But our rights are being gradually whittled away.
    Last edited by Matticus; 11-06-2012 at 11:10 AM. Reason: added "television" to the list...

  5. #5
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Well I refuse to be part of the willfully ignorant and I won't make excuses for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus View Post
    ...voting for one of [essentially] two pre-screened selections for presidency won't fix it.
    exactly why I do not vote for the major parties. I see today's election as a choice between liberty and tyranny, and both major parties represent varying degrees of unbearable tyranny, much greater than the positions of the candidate I chose. I have no illusions that my candidate will win. I do; however, believe that enough votes for the lesser-known parties will get them more exposure, and the media may have no choice but to include them in the next cycle. I love my country, and I feel it is headed in the wrong direction, with no real hope from either major party.

    if either of the majors wins, I see no real change taking place. like Matticus says, it really is just coke or pepsi. in a blind taste test, most people can't tell the difference. this has been proven by surveys of college students where they present a policy or a viewpoint of a particular candidate, and ask the individual whether they agree or disagree, and they find that many self-proclaimed democrat students often oppose democrat policies, and self-proclaimed republican students often oppose republican policies.

    I vote none of the above.

  7. #7
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    O_o

    I don't vote. I find the choice between several unsuitable candidates to be repellant.

    I do however try to influence the decisions of the government by influencing the local branch who influence those decisions.

    It doesn't really matter to me who is in office; it is sufficient to work to steer policy.

    Soma
    whiteflags likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    it is sufficient to work to steer policy.
    in principle, I agree. the man/woman doesn't matter so much as the policy. but if you can select a leader who already has policies that represent your beliefs, there is less steering required.

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    I do; however, believe that enough votes for the lesser-known parties will get them more exposure, and the media may have no choice but to include them in the next cycle.
    I find your viewpoint commendable. Well said.

  10. #10
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    if you can select a leader who already has policies that represent your beliefs, there is less steering required.
    O_o

    There is no such candidate, but even if there was trying to steer the policy of only one politician is foolish.

    Until all politicians thoroughly understand modern technology, simple psychology, and the notions of science as an absolute good guidance will be required of all candidates.

    If you stop at just one, you'll change exactly nothing.

    Soma

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    I wasn't necessarily referring to one individual candidate, I was speaking more broadly about elections in general. if each voter chooses a candidate, for each office, that represents their values, my point remains valid. unfortunately, people don't vote that way. they vote along gender or race lines, or they vote along party lines because of tradition, or they vote for the guy who makes the biggest promises, or they vote for the best looking candidate. whatever it is, it's generally not the right reason. people in our country rarely vote their conscience.

  12. #12
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    O_o

    I didn't say your point was invalid.

    I said there is no such candidate.

    No candidate at any level I may vote for "represents [my] values" significantly enough for me to honor them or their policies with my vote.

    I'm not being cute.

    I'm not trying to talk other people out of voting by suggesting that no suitable candidate exists to the minds of other people.

    I am simply saying that I find every candidate lacking entirely in the faculties, knowledge, and views I would have represent me had I the authority to fill those positions.

    I find every candidates views on something, one or more of the key issues of these elections, repellent.

    You think I don't vote because I don't know "who already has policies that represent [my] beliefs"? I don't vote because I'm not willing to compromise my "beliefs" by throwing my vote behind a candidate who has policies I find disgusting. It sickens me a little even to think that the populous have voted for any of these people. The on thing that makes this bearable is that, as you say, "People in our country rarely vote their conscience.".

    Yeah, you read that right. I'd rather think someone voted for Obama solely because he was black rather than because they actually agreed with his policies.

    So, yeah, there is no suitable candidate so only steering the local policies as I can is a prospect actually "on the table".

    If there was a suitable candidate, I would be campaigning on their behalf and not talking about the unsuitability of the available candidates..

    Soma

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    No candidate at any level I may vote for "represents [my] values" significantly enough for me to honor them or their policies with my vote.
    I completely understand that point of view. I considered abstaining from the presidential election for a while for that very reason.

    I'd rather think someone voted for Obama solely because he was black rather than because they actually agreed with his policies.
    I know exactly how you feel

    If there was a suitable candidate, I would be campaigning on their behalf and not talking about the unsuitability of the available candidates.
    fair enough. I understand this quite well. I am a little less strict about it than you. the candidate I chose doesn't perfectly match my views, but he comes very close. yes, there are a few things about his policies on which I disagree, but there are far more things that I approve of 100%. the items on which I disagree can be considered "minor" issues, in that they do not significantly impact the long-term stability and profitability of this country, which is why I'm willing to let them slide.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkvis View Post
    I love my country, and I feel it is headed in the wrong direction, with no real hope from either major party.
    Now imagine how us non-Americans feel, knowing we can't directly influence your ballots or votes and yet have to deal with the worldwide consequences of your financial and economic policies?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #15
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    Now imagine how us non-Americans feel, knowing we can't directly influence your ballots or votes and yet have to deal with the worldwide consequences of your financial and economic policies?
    I know what you are getting at, but I consider that a secondary issue.

    [Edit]
    Okay. It isn't a secondary issue.

    That was a bad choice of a word.

    It is an issue unrelated to the policies we set.
    [/Edit]

    We--the USA--have no business setting policy for other places regardless of the perceived "wealth" of the idea.

    *shrug*

    I guess I'd say that other places should have the right to make their own terrible policies.

    Soma

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