Linus Torvalds on C++
an exerpt from that article:
Originally Posted by Linus Torvalds
The man rails against features he clearly doesn't understand how to use.Really, I do like C++, but I still find his opinion of it to be respectable.
Would you respect the opinion if it were given by someone who didn't have his position?
No. You wouldn't.
Let's not pretend his position makes him right. Strangely, that would probably offend the man.
If you are going to find any of that "respectable" then at least respect the bit the is unquestionable: the man is passionate about his science.
I agree. I respect him as a person, and give him all the credit he deserves for creating the third most popular operating system for PC-based hardware (OS Statistics), but he's way off base with many of his opinions. they seem to be based on old wives' tales, superstition, and "that's the way we've always done it."
Yeah, it's not his choice of C over C++ for the kernel that I have a problem with, its his superficial dismissal of C++ as a horrible language. I'm definitely NOT suggesting that the Linux kernel be rewritten in C++!
but if I were writing a new OS kernel from scratch, C++ would be at the top of my list of languages to use.
It is as if his love for C is like a cult or religion. That is enough for me to dislike the man.
Although, I cannot fault him to such a big degree. Though he has his faults, I see no harm in the work it does. In fact, it is good work.
no programming language should be a religion. ever single one (with the exception of visual basic ) has its place and its purpose.
C certainly has its place. many embedded systems don't have any C++ compiler support, so C is the only option aside from assembly. for just about any environment that you're likely to encounter with a keyboard and monitor, though, C++ is readily available, and I'd say it should be used for any new project, because, at the very least, it provides a level of safety that today's insecure technology world demands. C provides no safety of any kind. it is entirely up to the programmer to avoid mistakes that C++ will warn about by default, or simply refuse to compile.
O_ohas its place and its purpose
Well yeah, but that's a far to forgiving measure.
Intercal is a spectacular language in "its place", but the gods forgive the man that ventures down that road for anything other than "........s and giggles".
Well this thread turned out to be fun.
In world history, you learn about how men in funny hats and their antics shaped our lives.
In computer science, you learn about how every notable figure and their antics are shaping our technology, and a lot of other people will think they're the worst for the job.
I don't think anyone is saying that Linus is the worst for the job. he's done many great things, and certainly deserves respect for it. the issue at hand is more that he's an arrogant, closed-minded jackass.
I don't think he's a jackass. He might be more forthright that Ted Tso or Greg Krone-Hartman on the issue of C over C++, but they all seem to share the same reasons for their preference of around the issues of simplicity (code in relation to machine code produced) and having to be explicit on every single memory allocation. You might disagree with these guys, but between them they have a project that values at over 1 billion dollars and its used in pretty much everything these days - not bad for a bunch of backward thinking dinosaurs!
If you all feel so strongly on how wrong these guys are, I cannot wait to see what you can produce in competition.
Forthright is hardly the proper description of him. I would say aggressive and demeaning:
If this was anyone other that Linus Torvalds, nobody would give him even an ounce of attention. If you can't get your point across without resorting to silly ad hominem attacks like this, chances are your opinion is not worth spending time on.Originally Posted by Linus
Hmm, after writing out this reply i realized i just called the management at nVidia for morons in this very thread a few pages back, oh well, i guess i don't live up to my own standards on this matter :D
How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
O_oI don't think he's a jackass.
His behavior doesn't make him a jackass?
Out of curiosity, would it make me a jackass?
They started the ball rolling, but the avalanche of financial, developer, and vendor support made "Linux" such a monster.You might disagree with these guys, but between them they have a project that values at over 1 billion dollars and its used in pretty much everything these days - not bad for a bunch of backward thinking dinosaurs!
"Linux" didn't become the monster it is because of anything to do with those men.
It always sets me to despair when I see people giving popularity greater reverence than science.If you all feel so strongly on how wrong these guys are, I cannot wait to see what you can produce in competition.
Oh yes, science! He is provably wrong in most of his rants against other languages; which to me always makes it slightly worse that he duplicated some of those same problems in the kernel code.
Well, someone did; I actually don't know all the authors responsible of course.
Last edited by phantomotap; 07-03-2012 at 11:41 PM.