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interview with Linus

This is a discussion on interview with Linus within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by jimblumberg In my opinion, he never said there is no reason to ever use C++. actually, he ...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimblumberg View Post
    In my opinion, he never said there is no reason to ever use C++.
    actually, he effectively said exactly that in the link that antred posted: Linus Torvalds on C++

    an exerpt from that article:

    Quote Originally Posted by Linus Torvalds
    C++ is a horrible language.

  2. #32
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    Really, I do like C++, but I still find his opinion of it to be respectable.
    The man rails against features he clearly doesn't understand how to use.

    Would you respect the opinion if it were given by someone who didn't have his position?

    No. You wouldn't.

    Let's not pretend his position makes him right. Strangely, that would probably offend the man.

    If you are going to find any of that "respectable" then at least respect the bit the is unquestionable: the man is passionate about his science.

    Soma

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    I agree. I respect him as a person, and give him all the credit he deserves for creating the third most popular operating system for PC-based hardware (OS Statistics), but he's way off base with many of his opinions. they seem to be based on old wives' tales, superstition, and "that's the way we've always done it."

  4. #34
    Registered User antred's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's not his choice of C over C++ for the kernel that I have a problem with, its his superficial dismissal of C++ as a horrible language. I'm definitely NOT suggesting that the Linux kernel be rewritten in C++!
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    but if I were writing a new OS kernel from scratch, C++ would be at the top of my list of languages to use.
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  6. #36
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antred View Post
    Yeah, it's not his choice of C over C++ for the kernel that I have a problem with, its his superficial dismissal of C++ as a horrible language. I'm definitely NOT suggesting that the Linux kernel be rewritten in C++!
    This is another thing I have a problem with the man for.
    It is as if his love for C is like a cult or religion. That is enough for me to dislike the man.
    Although, I cannot fault him to such a big degree. Though he has his faults, I see no harm in the work it does. In fact, it is good work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #37
    Registered User manasij7479's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    It is as if his love for C is like a cult or religion.
    To a certain extent you (it seems), me(definitely) and a lot of others here share the same sentiment about C++.

    [And I'm pretty sure that this will result in a flamewar .. but you all know it is true !]
    Manasij Mukherjee | gcc-4.8.2 @Arch Linux
    Slow and Steady wins the race... if and only if :
    1.None of the other participants are fast and steady.
    2.The fast and unsteady suddenly falls asleep while running !



  8. #38
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manasij7479 View Post
    To a certain extent you (it seems), me(definitely) and a lot of others here share the same sentiment about C++.
    Yes, but just remember: it does make one a bad individual. It just lowers one's status in the eyes of others (which might not always be such a bad thing).
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    no programming language should be a religion. ever single one (with the exception of visual basic ) has its place and its purpose.

    C certainly has its place. many embedded systems don't have any C++ compiler support, so C is the only option aside from assembly. for just about any environment that you're likely to encounter with a keyboard and monitor, though, C++ is readily available, and I'd say it should be used for any new project, because, at the very least, it provides a level of safety that today's insecure technology world demands. C provides no safety of any kind. it is entirely up to the programmer to avoid mistakes that C++ will warn about by default, or simply refuse to compile.
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  10. #40
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    has its place and its purpose
    O_o

    Well yeah, but that's a far to forgiving measure.

    Intercal is a spectacular language in "its place", but the gods forgive the man that ventures down that road for anything other than "........s and giggles".

    Soma
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  11. #41
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Well this thread turned out to be fun.

    In world history, you learn about how men in funny hats and their antics shaped our lives.

    In computer science, you learn about how every notable figure and their antics are shaping our technology, and a lot of other people will think they're the worst for the job.

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    I don't think anyone is saying that Linus is the worst for the job. he's done many great things, and certainly deserves respect for it. the issue at hand is more that he's an arrogant, closed-minded jackass.
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  13. #43
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    I don't think he's a jackass. He might be more forthright that Ted Tso or Greg Krone-Hartman on the issue of C over C++, but they all seem to share the same reasons for their preference of around the issues of simplicity (code in relation to machine code produced) and having to be explicit on every single memory allocation. You might disagree with these guys, but between them they have a project that values at over 1 billion dollars and its used in pretty much everything these days - not bad for a bunch of backward thinking dinosaurs!

    If you all feel so strongly on how wrong these guys are, I cannot wait to see what you can produce in competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
    I don't think he's a jackass. He might be more forthright that Ted Tso or Greg Krone-Hartman on the issue of C over C++, but they all seem to share the same reasons for their preference of around the issues of simplicity (code in relation to machine code produced) and having to be explicit on every single memory allocation. You might disagree with these guys, but between them they have a project that values at over 1 billion dollars and its used in pretty much everything these days - not bad for a bunch of backward thinking dinosaurs!

    If you all feel so strongly on how wrong these guys are, I cannot wait to see what you can produce in competition.
    https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pu...omment-5654674

    Forthright is hardly the proper description of him. I would say aggressive and demeaning:

    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    You're a moron.
    ...
    *YOU* are full of bull.........
    ...
    ........ you
    If this was anyone other that Linus Torvalds, nobody would give him even an ounce of attention. If you can't get your point across without resorting to silly ad hominem attacks like this, chances are your opinion is not worth spending time on.

    ...

    Hmm, after writing out this reply i realized i just called the management at nVidia for morons in this very thread a few pages back, oh well, i guess i don't live up to my own standards on this matter :D
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  15. #45
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    I don't think he's a jackass.
    O_o

    His behavior doesn't make him a jackass?

    Out of curiosity, would it make me a jackass?

    You might disagree with these guys, but between them they have a project that values at over 1 billion dollars and its used in pretty much everything these days - not bad for a bunch of backward thinking dinosaurs!
    They started the ball rolling, but the avalanche of financial, developer, and vendor support made "Linux" such a monster.

    "Linux" didn't become the monster it is because of anything to do with those men.

    If you all feel so strongly on how wrong these guys are, I cannot wait to see what you can produce in competition.
    It always sets me to despair when I see people giving popularity greater reverence than science.

    Oh yes, science! He is provably wrong in most of his rants against other languages; which to me always makes it slightly worse that he duplicated some of those same problems in the kernel code.

    *shrug*

    Well, someone did; I actually don't know all the authors responsible of course.

    Soma
    Last edited by phantomotap; 07-03-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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