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This is a discussion on Sometimes within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by galvadon people are just really condescending on here. I'm not COMPLAINING, I'm stating a fact, something that ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvadon View Post
    people are just really condescending on here. I'm not COMPLAINING, I'm stating a fact, something that you probably feel the instinct to quibble about if you're one of the people who talks about how long you've been programming, how surprised you are to see the same programming mistakes crop up in all these beginner programmers, and basically how easy it is to do anything someone else seems to be having trouble with. And then you tell them how to do it - obviously after you've arrogantly established your superiority.
    As MK27 said, you are presenting your subjective interpretation as fact. That, in my view, is at least as arrogant as the people you are criticising.

    The flip side - subjectively - is that less experienced posters contribute to the treatment they receive. They attempt to trick folks into doing their homework (for example by presenting a "challenge"), without even making an attempt themselves. They make mistakes of a very basic nature that they could have avoided if they even bothered to read the first chapter of any basic textbook on the subject. They often bump their posts accusing responders of tardiness because they do not get a reply within ten minutes. They refuse to read FAQ lists, on this and other sites, (which addresses a lot of the commonly occurring problems) because they deem it a waste of precious time. They don't bother to do even a basic keyword search to find existing threads about similar problems - again because that is a waste of their precious time. They post a lament about their code not working, but refuse to post the code, because others should understand without being told. Some folks post an an incredibly trivial technical question, or a question where they decline to provide the details needed for anyone to help, while portraying themselves as senior developers and senior managers who other members should pay homage to.

    The folks who do these things invariably come in with a sense of entitlement. They demand answers to their questions quickly. They demand to have their homework done for them. They demand useful answers, while declining to put effort into writing an understandable question. They demand that others sift through hundreds or thousands of lines of code to find a problem they haven't bothered to describe beyond "it's not working". They demand the right to do little work, and expect others to cater to them. And, lastly, they demand to be treated as equals (or even, in some cases, as superiors) while showing disdain for other members and demanding a respect they don't show to other posters.

    All this, in technical fora, where - once you have learned the ropes - the main paths to achievement (and, if you are lucky, respect of peers) are through your own effort. Your own effort in finding information. Your own effort in asking questions to elicit information. Your own effort in trying to understand a problem and solve it yourself. Your own effort towards problem solving.

    Frankly, you are lucky these fora exist at all, and that some people choose to devote time and effort into answering your basic questions. Without payment. Often without recognition. And often while taking abuse from people who think of this as a free homework factory.
    Last edited by grumpy; 01-25-2012 at 06:58 PM.
    Right 98% of the time, and don't care about the other 3%.

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    grumpys_post = powf(Like,10.0f);
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 01-25-2012 at 07:08 PM.

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    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvadon
    people are just really condescending on here. I'm not COMPLAINING, I'm stating a fact, something that you probably feel the instinct to quibble about if you're one of the people who talks about how long you've been programming, how surprised you are to see the same programming mistakes crop up in all these beginner programmers, and basically how easy it is to do anything someone else seems to be having trouble with. And then you tell them how to do it - obviously after you've arrogantly established your superiority.
    Hmm... yeah, I saw a pretty condescending post last year in which the user implied that he/she was well read compared to the neanderthal user that he/was addressing. It went something like:
    Quote Originally Posted by galvadon
    Well, he pretty much had the whole thing already, and "giving it to him" is easily equated with "read from the book/self-taught/raising your hand and asking the teacher". I guess you could make the case that he would learn more on his own, but I think that's just a romantic myth of independence that misunderstands how human beings work -- I recommend reading from Saussure to Lacan before basing your anger on sweeping assumptions about the human condition you probably aren't aware that you're making. Edit: Sweeping assumptions made in the folk-privacy of one's mind that don't consider how many years of epistemological study have gone into how annoyingly coercive "common sense" is.


    Granted, it doesn't have to be interpreted in a condescending way, but it can be. People are just really condescending on here. I'm not COMPLAINING, I'm stating a fact
    Last edited by laserlight; 01-25-2012 at 07:28 PM.
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    Wow. What does that second quote even say?

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvadon via laserlight
    I recommend reading from Saussure to Lacan before before basing your anger on [...] assumptions made in the folk-privacy of one's mind that don't consider how many years of epistemological study have gone into how annoyingly coercive "common sense" is
    LOL. I did not dig to find the thread source* for this one, but by the time most people get to Lacan, they will be ready to epistemologically demonstrate what years of common sense folk-privacy might coerce annoyingly. Ie, you'll be back where you started.

    Also why not just skip straight to Derrida and be done with it?

    * so in context it could be determined if this is:
    a) condescending
    b) ironic
    c) heartfelt
    d) all of the above
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Quote Originally Posted by galvadon View Post
    people are just really condescending on here.
    as a new board member, this has definitely been my experience. on my first thread, the replies were very condescending:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Do you honestly believe they would put something as big and complicated as reflection into C? Then you are barking up the wrong tree, sorry.
    as it turns out, while I am relatively new to C/C++, I have a lot of experience with C# and Python, and I do not want to be taken lightly. the very fact that I am using Reflection in C# should have shown that. in addition, I have read many threads were the responses were, again, condescending: the sort of "Better-than-you, consenting-to help-the-masses" type. Sorry, but a little courtesy goes a long way.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normandy View Post
    as a new board member, this has definitely been my experience. on my first thread, the replies were very condescending:



    as it turns out, while I am relatively new to C/C++, I have a lot of experience with C# and Python, and I do not want to be taken lightly. the very fact that I am using Reflection in C# should have shown that. in addition, I have read many threads were the responses were, again, condescending: the sort of "Better-than-you, consenting-to help-the-masses" type. Sorry, but a little courtesy goes a long way.
    There was nothing condescending in any of those answers. None of them were anything but helpful.

    You didn't get the answer you wanted because there is no standard feature like reflection in the language. Just because you know what reflection is in another language you expect what? Reverence? They could lie to you and say there is reflection available as standard, would you feel better served then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normandy View Post
    as a new board member, this has definitely been my experience. on my first thread, the replies were very condescending
    I don't know what you found condescending in that thread.
    Read the section about "Dealing with Rudeness" here:
    http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool
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  9. #24
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normandy View Post
    as a new board member, this has definitely been my experience. on my first thread, the replies were very condescending:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Do you honestly believe they would put something as big and complicated as reflection into C? Then you are barking up the wrong tree, sorry.
    Well, consider stuff like that as part of "the culture", lol. It again looks like two faces and a vase to me -- pretty sure Elysia was not really trying to condescend to you, but making a more generally sarcastic remark. There is a difference. The problem maybe is that the sarcasm is "over your head". Again, that can't be avoided, because it's difficult to know what someone, particularly a newcomer to the language and the board, will and will not understand.

    as it turns out, while I am relatively new to C/C++, I have a lot of experience with C# and Python, and I do not want to be taken lightly. the very fact that I am using Reflection in C# should have shown that.
    FYI, this all by itself does not really show that IMO. Now: does my use of "FYI" there seem patronizing? If so why?

    I do remember the thread and I would say that you did not actually communicate very well, because you asked a very general question that seemed to be derived from a particular context, but you didn't state those particulars (even after I asked). Assuming that reflection (which is a very broad concept) is the only or best way to do something begs a lot of questions.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Go to Allegro.cc if you want true condescending replies. I put up with it for 11 years and finally got tired of it. Its in our nature to condescend things we think should be known and I don't think it is something we set out to do though. Though the guys at Allegro seem to make it an art form and purposely do it. Just have to learn to let it roll off you, otherwise no forum would be readable as there is always someone condescending to the posters (Allegro just seems to have more than most).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normandy View Post
    the very fact that I am using Reflection in C# should have shown that.
    actually, the fact that you are using reflection is much more likely to be indicative of a problem with your design, unless you are doing something like custom serialization of objects or custom code generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Well, consider stuff like that as part of "the culture", lol. It again looks like two faces and a vase to me -- pretty sure Elysia was not really trying to condescend to you, but making a more generally sarcastic remark. There is a difference. The problem maybe is that the sarcasm is "over your head".
    perhaps..


    Quote Originally Posted by Elkvis View Post
    actually, the fact that you are using reflection is much more likely to be indicative of a problem with your design, unless you are doing something like custom serialization of objects or custom code generation.
    I'm doing custom code generation.

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    Epy
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    Check your other thread, I have responded with something that might help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normandy View Post
    as a new board member, this has definitely been my experience. on my first thread, the replies were very condescending:



    as it turns out, while I am relatively new to C/C++, I have a lot of experience with C# and Python, and I do not want to be taken lightly. the very fact that I am using Reflection in C# should have shown that. in addition, I have read many threads were the responses were, again, condescending: the sort of "Better-than-you, consenting-to help-the-masses" type. Sorry, but a little courtesy goes a long way.
    says the user that "condescends" a handful of mac fanboys with his avatar. J/K.
    Seriously though, I couldn't find even one reply that is "condescending" in that post you linked. And if "helping"=="condescending" then yes, all those posts were "condescending".
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    Personally, I don't mind at all. There a numerous places that I go to as a nooblet, and the respondents are very often, a little condescending.
    But to complain? You're the one asking for help, you would think getting free help would be worth taking a little condescension. If you can't deal with it, then you have no business begging for help in the first place. Beggars can't be choosers.
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