Like Tree10Likes

This had me literally rofling once I got the meaning(s)!

This is a discussion on This had me literally rofling once I got the meaning(s)! within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by MK27 Anyone that thinks point and click file browsers are evolutionary is probably also still trying to ...

  1. #16
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,678
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Anyone that thinks point and click file browsers are evolutionary is probably also still trying to unload that Florida swampland they've owned since the 1970's. "Drag n' drop" is great -- for children under 10 who have trouble finding F6 or Ctrl.
    I've been using MC exclusively for a couple months now, and find that it has it's strengths, and weaknesses, when compared to a GUI file manager. Most notably, dragging and dropping random files to random directories _is_ much faster with a mouse than a keyboard; because fancy pattern matching won't help you very much there. While I'm sure my having more exp. with a GUI file manager effects my judgement, most of the time, when casually poking around, the efficiency is about the same.
    A class that doesn't overload all operators just isn't finished yet. -- SmugCeePlusPlusWeenie
    A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God. -- Alan J. Perlis

  2. #17
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarin View Post
    I've been using MC exclusively for a couple months now, and find that it has it's strengths, and weaknesses, when compared to a GUI file manager. Most notably, dragging and dropping random files to random directories _is_ much faster with a mouse than a keyboard; because fancy pattern matching won't help you very much there. While I'm sure my having more exp. with a GUI file manager effects my judgement, most of the time, when casually poking around, the efficiency is about the same.
    I don't fancy pattern match, I just select files via the arrow keys and "insert" to select, then F5 or F6 to move/copy. You can do the same thing with the mouse in MC (select with the mouse in X or via gpm); that's faster if they are far apart and you have a big screen, which makes it potentially the exact same thing as a point and click browser -- but pressing an F key afterward is still faster than drag n' drop. How could it not be? It's instantaneous. And you can screw "the drop" or "the drag" up either.

    I'd presume most decent GUI file browsers have hot keys for stuff like that for use by "power users" or whatever. If not, it is just 100% laziness on the part of the developers.

    I think learning to use tools like mc (and vim) is hard, like learning to ride a bike is hard. A lot of GUI tools are, comparatively, very easy to pick up because everything is "intuitively obvious". However, they also sometimes -- particularly in the case of the file browser -- remind me of a bike someone welded training wheels onto, then removed all the gears and the front brake. They're great for things you do occasionally and can't be bothered to understand much. Is it "easier" if you've never used such a thing before? Sure. Is it efficient and useful if you have? No. I started using eclipse this week and it has a lot of nifty features, but it does not have a lot of useful editing features (beyond autocompletion). The "editing features" are nearly non-existent. You might as well be using notepad with syntax highlighting. That side of it just plain sucks. To me it seems like a great tool for analyzing and examining code, but for actually editing code it's pathetic.
    Last edited by MK27; 01-06-2012 at 08:45 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  3. #18
    Registered User manasij7479's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kolkata@India
    Posts
    2,509
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I started using eclipse this week and it has a lot of nifty features, but it does not have a lot of useful editing features (beyond autocompletion). The "editing features" are nearly non-existent. You might as well be using notepad with syntax highlighting. That side of it just plain sucks. To me it seems like a great tool for analyzing and examining code, but for actually editing code it's pathetic.
    Well... look no further than external editors... most can be integrated into eclipse instead of the default 'plain' one.
    Do I really need to tell you to rtfm ? (Search "External Editors" here: Help - Eclipse Platform)
    If you want to add a new one... make a plugin.Help - Eclipse Platform
    Manasij Mukherjee | gcc-4.8.2 @Arch Linux
    Slow and Steady wins the race... if and only if :
    1.None of the other participants are fast and steady.
    2.The fast and unsteady suddenly falls asleep while running !



  4. #19
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by manasij7479 View Post
    Well... look no further than external editors... most can be integrated into eclipse instead of the default 'plain' one.
    Do I really need to tell you to rtfm ? (Search "External Editors" here: Help - Eclipse Platform)
    If you want to add a new one... make a plugin.Help - Eclipse Platform
    I did install vrapper, and that gives you some of the added vim functionality, but not all, eg, it doesn't include whatever plugins and configuration you have for your actual vim, doesn't have the : line, etc. There's another vim plugin that actually embeds vim into eclipse, but I believe you then loose the eclipse interface completely for that window.

    What I've settled on is to use gvim and eclipse concurrently, because they both auto-detect when a loaded file has been externally changed and pop up a box, "file x was changed...re-load?" kind of thing. So if I just need to tweak something minor, I use eclipse with vwrapper, but for anything beyond that, I use gvim, then flip over to eclipse for testing. This also means I can have a full screen view while editing but leave all the side things open in eclipse (maybe there is a simple way to toggle that in eclipse too? Should be).

    So far, that seems like a best of both worlds to set-up to me, I have no problems flipping back and forth -- the biggest hassle is just clicking "yes, reload". However, it brings to mind a few things:

    1) the value of a unix "modular" software approach vs. the monolithic "integrated supertoaster" approach.

    2) that most of the time, using an IDE is not significantly different than using a (decent, code oriented) text editor and a terminal shell.

    3) that gvim seems more fundamentally useful to me, because while it does not do everything eclipse does, it does the most fundamentally important thing, IMO, coding wise (provide for text editing) much better. This is a consequence of point #1.
    Last edited by MK27; 01-06-2012 at 11:39 AM.
    manasij7479 likes this.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  5. #20
    Registered User manasij7479's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kolkata@India
    Posts
    2,509
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    (decent, code oriented) text editor and a terminal shell.
    That IS an IDE too...by definition.

    Btw..you could try making an eclipse plugin that suits exactly what you need. It seems that a lot of other people will find it very useful.
    Manasij Mukherjee | gcc-4.8.2 @Arch Linux
    Slow and Steady wins the race... if and only if :
    1.None of the other participants are fast and steady.
    2.The fast and unsteady suddenly falls asleep while running !



  6. #21
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by manasij7479 View Post
    Btw..you could try making an eclipse plugin that suits exactly what you need. It seems that a lot of other people will find it very useful.
    Lol -- I think that would take me quite a long time.

    And I don't really see a need for it as much as I see a need to encourage support for what I'm doing now (using the two separate tools together). While there's nothing wrong with "plug-ins", I don't think that should be considered synonymous with truly modular software -- individual, stand-alone components that can work as part of a chain.

    I don't see why eclipse couldn't be developed to do all the things vim does, or the reverse. But just because something is possible does not make it desirable.

    Right now, it seems to me eclipse (and vim) are pretty good about working with material that may also be working with another tool (concurrently or consecutively). I suppose that is somewhat related to the nature of the task. Eg, you want legitimate .cpp files, you don't want a tool that has it's own special file format, including meta-data, on the assumption that this tool is the only tool that will ever be used for this project. Hopefully that can stay that way, although I do see the potential for IDE "project files" to be maintained in such a way that changing the project outside of the IDE creates a screw-up. I'm pessimistically assuming I will run into this problem sooner or later in some form, because I'm pessimistically assuming IDE developers do not explicitly make avoiding such problems a priority.

    Which is just bad design IMO, but it is commonplace in software I think because it is sort of a good business model -- by creating and exploiting incompatibility, you get a better shot at a "winner take all" monopoly. Business wise, it is probably better to engineer your product to make the consumer dependent on it rather than engineer it so that the consumer is always left with a choice.
    Last edited by MK27; 01-07-2012 at 05:48 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. *ptr = 0 what is the meaning
    By dayalsoap in forum C Programming
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-18-2010, 03:49 PM
  2. The meaning of ;
    By HunterCS in forum C++ Programming
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-03-2007, 05:29 PM
  3. Meaning of %hd
    By SeekerOfWisdom in forum C Programming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-26-2006, 04:18 PM
  4. meaning!!
    By Unregistered in forum C Programming
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-22-2002, 08:52 PM
  5. meaning
    By xlordt in forum C Programming
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-01-2002, 09:22 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21