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This is a discussion on blocking ad ware within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Get your ass of IE6. Seriously, what reasons do you have that can possibly make up for the fact that ...

  1. #16
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Get your ass of IE6.
    Seriously, what reasons do you have that can possibly make up for the fact that you are running an extremely old web browser?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  2. #17
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Seriously, what reasons do you have that can possibly make up for the fact that you are running an extremely old web browser?
    I believe the most popular excuse is, "it is easier for me to be lazy and force other people to maintain backward compatibility with a deprecated and defective product, driving up development costs for sites I don't pay anything for anyway, than it would be to spend 10 minutes upgrading."

    Quote Originally Posted by megafiddle View Post
    I'm not complaining. As I have IE 6 set up, it does 99 % of everything I need to do, and it does it fast.
    That's great -- and screw everyone else I guess, as long as you get what you want? Did you watch that 2 minute video? I have to do that tish. It is a ridiculous pain in the ass. Thankfully, some people are starting to say, okay, time's up. Don't bother with the IE6 work arounds. To be nice, we'll put a short circuit in the server config sending people to a "Please upgrade" page.
    Last edited by MK27; 12-19-2011 at 09:25 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  3. #18
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    I hope that "forced upgrade" thing for IE 6 and 7 actually turns out right.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
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  4. #19
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    I hope that "forced upgrade" thing for IE 6 and 7 actually turns out right.
    Sounds like it:
    Microsoft to Force New Internet Explorer on Users / Infopackets.com

    I think one of the concerns about IE6 is WRT large institutions deploying XP who are waiting until 2014 to upgrade the OS. Eg, the Queen's Public Library system in New York City, which has thousands of free public access internet terminals, was still using IE6 the last time I was there, and I imagine "forced upgrading" will just fail in that setting.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  5. #20
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    They should include a kill switch in each of their versions, that when run once killed would pop a message saying: "This version is too old and therefore will not run. Upgrade immediately to solve this problem!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I believe the most popular excuse is, "it is easier for me to be lazy and force other people to maintain backward compatibility with a deprecated and defective product, driving up development costs for sites I don't pay anything for anyway, than it would be to spend 10 minutes upgrading."

    That's great -- and screw everyone else I guess, as long as you get what you want? Did you watch that 2 minute video? I have to do that tish. It is a ridiculous pain in the ass. Thankfully, some people are starting to say, okay, time's up. Don't bother with the IE6 work arounds. To be nice, we'll put a short circuit in the server config sending people to a "Please upgrade" page.
    First, as I already said twice, the problem was also occuring with IE 8. Even if I had already
    upgraded a couple times, I would have been posting the same question.

    And second no one consulted with me about continuing to support IE 6 or anything else. If
    anyone wants to support older stuff, that's a business decision they made for their own
    reasons. They can turn me off anytime they want. I'm not stopping them.

  7. #22
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megafiddle View Post
    no one consulted with me about continuing to support IE 6 or anything else. If
    anyone wants to support older stuff, that's a business decision they made for their own
    reasons. They can turn me off anytime they want. I'm not stopping them.
    I've put up IE6 browser re-directs before (using that video), and one of the things that surprised me, as a bit of a pessimist regarding human behaviour, is that most of the feedback was positive -- ie, it was from people who said, "Thank you for providing this information, I had no idea and I've upgraded my browser." Apparently many people just stuck with IE6 because it came with windows XP and they didn't see the point of upgrading, but when presented with some facts, happily changed their mind.

    I guess that makes you part of a minority who instead, took this as an affront to their ego or whatever, and ..........ed about how they thought it was rude to not continue to support a decade old product the manufacturer has given up on and issued warnings about, even tho upgrading is free, painless, and takes < 10 minutes.

    First, as I already said twice, the problem was also occuring with IE 8.
    I'm sure IE8 is not perfect either, but that it is not a reason not to upgrade (and nb, you're probably lucky it did affect IE8, or I bet they would not have fixed it). I could understand this kind of ignorance from a non-programmer whose head is filled with superstitious tripe, but I just don't get it from someone who should know that keeping your software updated is the best thing for everyone concerned including yourself.

    Hopefully HTML 5 will change that, but of course, here's the vicious circle: the norm in the industry is still to support IE6 because so many people still use it out of ignorance, and it's the browser that came with their OS. So people are afraid of using HTML 5, etc., because they know too many people are scared of upgrading and will just give up when a site doesn't work for them.

    Next time anyone thinks, "Hey, why isn't the web more modern yet?", blame megafiddle.
    Last edited by MK27; 12-24-2011 at 04:52 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Next time anyone thinks, "Hey, why isn't the web more modern yet?", blame megafiddle.
    I wish I had that much power! Fact is I'm not responsible for the antiquity of anything.
    If you own a website and provide support for outdated stuff, that's your decision. And
    if you are working for someone who insists on providing that kind of support, then take
    it up with your emplorer.

    It would be very different if I were complaining about IE6, or asking for continued support.
    I have done neither.

    I'm sure IE8 is not perfect either, but that it is not a reason not to upgrade (and nb, you're probably lucky it did affect IE8, or I bet they would not have fixed it). I could understand this kind of ignorance from a non-programmer whose head is filled with superstitious tripe, but I just don't get it from someone who should know that keeping your software updated is the best thing for everyone concerned including yourself.
    Imperfections in newer versions had nothing to do with my continued use of IE6. I only
    mentioned that the problem was occuring with both IE6 and IE8 for trouble shooting
    purposes.

    And what makes you think I use IE6 out of of any type of ignorance?
    Maybe I just happen to like it?


    I guess that makes you part of a minority who instead, took this as an affront to their ego or whatever, and ..........ed about how they thought it was rude to not continue to support a decade old product the manufacturer has given up on and issued warnings about, even tho upgrading is free, painless, and takes < 10 minutes.
    No, I am not "..........ed" about anyone not supporting anything. Where would you even
    get that from anything I said?

    And as far as minorities are concerned, I am in the one that learns to use something
    and continues to use it as long as it works. I have all kinds of old things that I use
    because I prefer them.

    I go to youtube with EI6. it says "your browser is outdated". Yet I can still watch any video I want.

    I am pretty sure that there is not some bit of software there going "Oh No! Megafiddle is here again! Keep that old stuff running!"
    Last edited by megafiddle; 12-24-2011 at 08:22 PM.

  9. #24
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Well I'm just surprized you still have it. The upgrades for IE have been in the windows update queue for a while now. You dodged quite a big bullet.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Spybot Search and Destroy will do all of this for you and has over 200,000 known sites it adds to your list. I would recommend using it instead of manually entering sites.

  11. #26
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megafiddle View Post
    I wish I had that much power! Fact is I'm not responsible for the antiquity of anything.
    If you own a website and provide support for outdated stuff, that's your decision. And
    if you are working for someone who insists on providing that kind of support, then take
    it up with your emplorer.

    It would be very different if I were complaining about IE6, or asking for continued support.
    I have done neither.


    Imperfections in newer versions had nothing to do with my continued use of IE6. I only
    mentioned that the problem was occuring with both IE6 and IE8 for trouble shooting
    purposes.

    And what makes you think I use IE6 out of of any type of ignorance?
    Maybe I just happen to like it?




    No, I am not "..........ed" about anyone not supporting anything. Where would you even
    get that from anything I said?

    And as far as minorities are concerned, I am in the one that learns to use something
    and continues to use it as long as it works. I have all kinds of old things that I use
    because I prefer them.

    I go to youtube with EI6. it says "your browser is outdated". Yet I can still watch any video I want.

    I am pretty sure that there is not some bit of software there going "Oh No! Megafiddle is here again! Keep that old stuff running!"
    You are the enemy of all software engineers and a danger to all computer users. That is all I have to say.
    MK27 likes this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #27
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that there is not some bit of software there going "Oh No! Megafiddle is here again! Keep that old stuff running!"
    Actually supporting older versions in new software does exactly that but not based on your user name. You are forcing the code to take completely different paths and thus open up all kinds of opportunities for new bugs. Supporting older code in newer code lines is the biggest PITA you will ever encounter. This is why most studios only support two versions at one time. The current version and the previous version. Anything more than that becomes a nightmare in source control, maintenance, etc. Imagine someone reports a bug in some older version of software and you are assigned to fix it. However you cannot break any current functionality either b/c that would upset current users. What usually ends up happening is the code gets littered with a ton of #ifdefs b/c even though code is designed to be modular and easy to maintain there is no code line in existence that can support all versions efficiently. You could introduce yet another bug in IE6 with your bug fix. Even if you branch the two it is possible that a bug fix in an older code line could get accidentally placed into a new code line. There is also the possibility that the bug in the old code line does not exist or make sense in the new code line due to different designs. Now turn the tide and you are a developer that is creating a new feature in a new code line yet you must make sure your new feature does not break any existing functionality in any previous version. Imagine the testing that would need to take place to verify such a thing. Now you can understand what Microsoft goes through with their Win32 API. They try like mad to never break any Win32 API functionality. What ends up happening is now the API is cluttered with old code and new code (new versions of same functions usually have the suffix Ex on then) and the entire code line becomes a nightmare.

    Also in a studio you are constantly moving on to the next thing and your worst nightmare is when QA comes up and says there is a bug they want you to look at and it happens to be in a code line that is almost 4 years old. Hopefully there is documentation about the code line but even that is not completely adequate in most cases. So you must change gears, rewind 4 years in the past, try to contact people who worked on it (if they still work at the company), dig up the old documentation and requirements (to ensure your fix doesn't violate them) etc., etc. A huge mess and not a good day at work.

    It is a much bigger issue than you may think.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 12-27-2011 at 07:59 PM.
    whiteflags and Elysia like this.

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