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Guidance needed

This is a discussion on Guidance needed within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Swoorup I don't know if I can, but just want to learn it too and get off ...

  1. #16
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup
    I don't know if I can, but just want to learn it too and get off with VB.
    There is this phrase that comes to mind: jack of all trades, master of none. You risk falling into that category if you don't focus your efforts. Being jack of many trades and master of a select few would serve you better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup
    And is it similar to C? If it is, then won't it help me in learning C?
    Yes, learning C# could help you learn C, but it could also hinder you, because ultimately C# is not C.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
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    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    Does not matter though.
    @laserlight I don't know if I can, but just want to learn it too and get off with VB. And is it similar to C? If it is, then won't it help me in learning C?
    The only thing that is going to help you learn C is to learn C...

    You're wandering around like a drunken choirboy here. You're not going to learn *anything* by trying to learn *everything* nobody can even remotely hope to do that. You will find yourself in a much better place --and job-- if you learn one thing and learn it well.

    Per the old saying: "A man who knows parts of everything, nows all of nothing."

    I think that ASM, linux and C are all related to each other very much, so learning one would help me learn the other at the same time.
    Tell you what... print out a couple of pages of your beloved VB source code, then print out a couple of pages of properly indented C and a couple of pages of ASM... tack them up on a bulletin board... stand back 10 feet... do you see any resemblence?

    Trust me... all you are doing is confusing yourself to the point where you'll never be any good at any of them.
    Last edited by CommonTater; 11-20-2011 at 03:46 AM.

  3. #18
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Focus on C, and keep that focus until you feel confident with it. As everyone has said, that is going to take more than a few months.

    I don't think there is much real practical value to ASM...maybe you could lay off that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    Here is an example: I used to see some codes containg _cdecl ,_stdcall or fastcall.
    Then I said to myself what the hell, why is that hard to learn. Then I went through ASM, and I got to know its just the standards of calling convention or the way parameters are passed.
    Sure, but you can look thru code and find all kinds of mysterious API calls. Does that mean you need to learn every single API? I guess it depends on the context. In what level of detail? It's great you have taken an interest in assembly, but how much of it do you think it is necessary to know? For what purpose? Are you going to sit and write applications in ASM? I don't think so. I'm sure it is interesting. Learning about transistors and logic gates is interesting too, but unless you plan on engineering microchips, the information does not seem not particularly useful. It may give you some insight into how higher level languages like C work, but you don't need to be proficient with it. Focus on C Make good use of the forum here. Even if you don't have a question, periodically have a look at new threads and try to follow what is being discussed. You can interject a question into someone else's thread. You can put forward an idea and find out how people with more experience feel about it. It's a great place to get feedback and pick up good habits.
    Last edited by MK27; 11-20-2011 at 06:35 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Sure, but you can look thru code and find all kinds of mysterious API calls. Does that mean you need to learn every single API?
    LOL... With the C library getting into the hundreds and Windows topping 30,000... that's just not going to happen.

    Hense my frequent advice to learn how to "Look Stuff Up!"

    Our friend may have learned about STDCALL etc. from an ASM manual, but he could just as easily have looked on the MSDN site or found it in the help files for his C compiler, both of which will have explainations.

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    Learning ASM is so much helpful, especially in RE.

    Ok thank you guys. I don't have internet connection time and often to look up MSDN, but I will be asking any problem I encounter in learning C or ASM too. Mind if you can tell me where can I download the MSDN visual C++ library permanently to a hard drive?

    And yeah, I am very much interested to know how the computer works (Mainly how a processor processes opcodes).Can you give me a few pointers?

    Again thanks a lot guys.

    EDIT:Why my post did not get formatted with carriage return? EDIT EDIT: Don't bother about this sorry.
    Last edited by Swoorup; 11-20-2011 at 08:45 AM. Reason: did not format properly

  6. #21
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    Mind if you can tell me where can I download the MSDN visual C++ library permanently to a hard drive?
    I guess you could start here and save the web page, at least one link deep. At least until someone recommends something better.

    Windows API List

    The MSDN does list according to Visual Studio version, so you might want to watch out for that. Most parts of the WINAPI are as old as CommonTater is () but things do get added/work differently in newer versions.

    And yeah, I am very much interested to know how the computer works (Mainly how a processor processes opcodes).Can you give me a few pointers?
    Pointers...?

    I guess you could start here: HowStuffWorks "How Microprocessors Work"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    Learning ASM is so much helpful, especially in RE.

    Ok thank you guys. I don't have internet connection time and often to look up MSDN, but I will be asking any problem I encounter in learning C or ASM too. Mind if you can tell me where can I download the MSDN visual C++ library permanently to a hard drive?
    First, if you want to learn C... learn C... I would recommend you look into Pelles C, it's free, it's standards driven, it's very complete with a full set of C99 headers, windows headers and libs, a full suite of resource editors and one of the best help files going. Unlike many other compilers this one is fully documented.

    The Windows SDK can be downloaded Here... read down the page to find out which version you need for your system.

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    The SDK is too huge. A little description would be helpful. Whats the difference between MSDN and SDK documentation?
    I have been using gcc compiler from DEV CPP software.
    I use command line to build though. Should I switch to?

    EDIT:Thank you for recommending Pellas, especially the reason its designed only for C and its easy to use.
    But the debugger could have done better. I can't jump to an address directly
    Last edited by Swoorup; 11-20-2011 at 10:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    The SDK is too huge. A little description would be helpful. Whats the difference between MSDN and SDK documentation?
    The Windows SDK is essentially MSDN on a disk.
    Trust me on this... if you don't have the space to install the SDK you won't have enough space to do much software development...

    What are you using for equipment?


    EDIT:Thank you for recommending Pellas, especially the reason its designed only for C and its easy to use.
    But the debugger could have done better. I can't jump to an address directly
    No you can't go directly to an address... however you can set breakpoints in your source code and have it run the program up to the breakpoint.

    On 32 bit projects...
    Project -> Project Options -> Compiler -> Debug Information -> full.
    Project -> Project Options -> Linker -> Debug Information -> CodeView & Coff

    On 64 bit projects...
    Project -> Project Options -> Compiler -> Debug Information -> full.
    Project -> Project Options -> Linker -> Debug Information -> CodeView

    Now you have source level debugging.

    There's an addin available from Pelles C forums that adds 3 buttons to the tree view for Release, Debug and Profile versions of the code. You probably should install it as a convenience.

    Also look in the help file... In fact, spend some time familiarizing yourself with it's contents. There's a ton of useful information in there. One of POIDE's best tricks is to put your text cursor on a keyword or library function and press F1 for help. Works for every function in the library. Also on the Forums is a download link for the Windows 98 SDK that can be hooked into your help menu and then searched with F1 for windows API call information as well. (This gives you about 75% of what's available on Win7, but you still need the SDK to have the most up to date information)
    Last edited by CommonTater; 11-21-2011 at 01:46 AM. Reason: typos

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    Oh thank you sir.

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