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Is this really true ?

This is a discussion on Is this really true ? within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; 1) How do you put an elephant in your refrigerator? 1) Place it in the refrigerator. I fail to see ...

  1. #31
    The larch
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    1) How do you put an elephant in your refrigerator?
    1) Place it in the refrigerator.
    I fail to see how this answers the how-question. Perhaps the question should be reworded to "what you have to do to end up with an elephant inside a refigerator?"

    -----------

    Perhaps a better response would be to ask for clarifications of the requirements? (Most of the mess we make at work seems to come from not having a clear idea what needs to be done, but then doing something anyway.)

    E.g butchering the elephant isn't something you'd want (your colleagues to) do without first making sure that you can't use a larger refrigerator.
    Last edited by anon; 11-19-2011 at 04:32 AM.
    I might be wrong.

    Thank you, anon. You sure know how to recognize different types of trees from quite a long way away.
    Quoted more than 1000 times (I hope).

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    I fail to see how this answers the how-question. Perhaps the question should be reworded to "what you have to do to end up with an elephant inside a refigerator?"
    Try "Find elephant small enough to fit inside the refrigerator, bring it to the refrigerator, open the refrigerator door, place it inside, and close the door."

    That style of answer works for all sorts of items (a bottle of milk, an apple, etc). It is equally applicable to an elephant.
    Right 98% of the time, and don't care about the other 3%.

  3. #33
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    I fail to see how this answers the how-question. Perhaps the question should be reworded to "what you have to do to end up with an elephant inside a refigerator?"
    Well, it is a very apocryphal sounding story IMO (maybe CT was making a joke to start with??). I think the only reason anyone could possibly find it interesting is not because the answer is clever (it isn't) but because someone won something with it. And, since this person apparently beat 1500 other people, s/he would be a 1 in 1500 kind of person. Even better -- supposedly it was a skill testing question, lol, so this person must have some unusual skills.*

    So the story is sort of like the relic of a saint, you know -- everything this person touched is sacred and has some holy worth. You should thing carefully about it and learn something from such a master...wait a minute...what a pile of ...........

    I'd love to here what actual job this qualified someone for in such an exceptional sense

    * if I managed the kook that made staffing decisions this way, the first person I'd want to hire would be someone to replace the kook who did the interview.
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  4. #34
    The larch
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    How do you know there's an elephant in the fridge? - In C++ there's no standard way to know that, unless you keep track of elephants entering and exiting the fridge manually.
    I might be wrong.

    Thank you, anon. You sure know how to recognize different types of trees from quite a long way away.
    Quoted more than 1000 times (I hope).

  5. #35
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    How do you know there's an elephant in the fridge? - In C++ there's no standard way to know that, unless you keep track of elephants entering and exiting the fridge manually.
    Ah -- the Schrödinger's Elephant problem!
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I'd love to here what actual job this qualified someone for in such an exceptional sense
    If memory serves they were looking for a Director of I.T. Services...

    I've seen/heard of other hiring situations where similar tests have been used to weed out people who don't have the proper mindset for the job.

    When the company I worked for was hiring new technicians, they would hand them a number of electronic parts... What are these?
    Another company I know required technicians to take voltage readings during the interview.

    Whatever it takes to get the right person in the right cubicle...
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  7. #37
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater
    I've seen/heard of other hiring situations where similar tests have been used to weed out people who don't have the proper mindset for the job.

    When the company I worked for was hiring new technicians, they would hand them a number of electronic parts... What are these?
    Another company I know required technicians to take voltage readings during the interview.
    Those would be closer to a FizzBuzz question than a "put an elephant in your refrigerator" question.
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  8. #38
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    If memory serves they were looking for a Director of I.T. Services...
    Perhaps a Officetype of guy?

    May-be it is my bad understanding of humour, but the questions and answers are just a joke (the "correct" answers are seemingly logical, yet make no sense given the absurdity of the situation)?

    As to FizzBuzz, what's so hard about it:

    Code:
    #include <cstdio>
    
    int main()
    {
        puts("1\n2\nFizz\n4\nBuzz\nFizz\n7\n8\nFizz\nBuzz\n11\nFizz\n13\n14\nFizzBuzz\n"
             "16\n17\nFizz\n19\nBuzz\nFizz\n22\n23\nFizz\nBuzz\n26\nFizz\n28\n29\nFizzBuzz\n"
             "31\n32\nFizz\n34\nBuzz\nFizz\n37\n38\nFizz\nBuzz\n41\nFizz\n43\n44\nFizzBuzz\n"
             "46\n47\nFizz\n49\nBuzz\nFizz\n52\n53\nFizz\nBuzz\n56\nFizz\n58\n59\nFizzBuzz\n"
             "61\n62\nFizz\n64\nBuzz\nFizz\n67\n68\nFizz\nBuzz\n71\nFizz\n73\n74\nFizzBuzz\n"
             "76\n77\nFizz\n79\nBuzz\nFizz\n82\n83\nFizz\nBuzz\n86\nFizz\n88\n89\nFizzBuzz\n"
             "91\n92\nFizz\n94\nBuzz\nFizz\n97\n98\nFizz\nBuzz");
    }
    Last edited by anon; 11-19-2011 at 08:40 AM.
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    I might be wrong.

    Thank you, anon. You sure know how to recognize different types of trees from quite a long way away.
    Quoted more than 1000 times (I hope).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    Those would be closer to a FizzBuzz question than a "put an elephant in your refrigerator" question.
    True enough...

    One applicant I interviewed left me with a line I still use to this day (and got the job)...

    I'd handed him a small box of electronic parts to identify...
    "This is a 10,000 ohm 1.4 watt resistor, this is a 10 microfarad 16 volt capacitor" and so on...

    Then his face brightens and he says: "If you let the smoke out any of these, they stop working."

    My point was that some sort of aptitude or specific knowledge test... refrigerators or parts bins, whatever, is a very common part of the hiring process.

    FWIW... the guy who didn't get the job handed me the box back and said... "It's a disassembled amplifier." which was also correct, but hardly the response I was looking for.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by manasij7479 View Post
    My addition to that: "... and will think that they are being very clever with it."
    It is known as the Dunning Kruger Effect.

    Dunning
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by novacain View Post
    It is known as the Dunning Kruger Effect.

    Dunning
    In other words... Buddy doesn't get it and Buddy doesn't get that Buddy doesn't get it.

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    I did not expect that to happen, but in reality computer courses are just a source of money.

    In colleges they teach VB. Why? Because if it had been C/C++ a majority of students would drop out the course. And thats why they are forced to learn poor and bad concepts that develop while programming in VB.

    I am the victim too.

  13. #43
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    I did not expect that to happen, but in reality computer courses are just a source of money.

    In colleges they teach VB. Why? Because if it had been C/C++ a majority of students would drop out the course. And thats why they are forced to learn poor and bad concepts that develop while programming in VB.

    I am the victim too.
    I don't know VB, but I am sure it is possible to use it without relying on"poor and bad" concepts. The language you use will not make you a good (or bad) programmer.

    College curriculums are in part determined by their faculty. Eg, it's decided that the curriculum should include "Introduction to Object Oriented Programming", so Professor X, who likes python, says, "Okay, I can design a course using python for this".

    Of course, I'm sure not all instructors are good at what they do. That being the case, it probably doesn't matter what language they use. You could take a C or C++ course too and get taught all kinds of bad practices.

    I would guess, tho, that coming from VB to C might make it seem like you have bad habits, because of things that you can do easily in VB that require more thought and care in C. That's the nature of the beast.
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    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoorup View Post
    I did not expect that to happen, but in reality computer courses are just a source of money.

    In colleges they teach VB. Why? Because if it had been C/C++ a majority of students would drop out the course. And thats why they are forced to learn poor and bad concepts that develop while programming in VB.

    I am the victim too.
    Naaaa... they'd learn C instead.

    Seriously... I am still seeing you (over) reacting to the difference without actually learning the new language.

    Yes, C is radically different than BASIC. But so what? We're talking about the correct usage of about 30 keywords here... not the end of the world.

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    We can use it without grasping the "bad habits", but it is difficult to do so, while C/C++ on the other hand forces us to avoid bad practices. My friends don't ever declare variables, bad naming of the variables( haven't realized how the same block and small-ed lettered variable would behave). Nobody even realizes about the difference between passing by ref and by value.
    Off course there are other practices too.


    VB keeps students mind off the structure of the program, it just focuses on the input and output of the program. While a language like C considers optimization, the flow of the program, its implementation and forces us to consider how the same code would run on other platforms. So when a person chooses first to learn VB, it keeps his/her mind off these things, just makes him/her focus on the outcome. And the same behavior is developed through his VB years.

    Well I think now I don't have much to say. Sorry if I am acting like whiny though. Really excuse me!
    Last edited by Swoorup; 11-20-2011 at 09:01 AM.

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