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Dennis M. Ritchie

This is a discussion on Dennis M. Ritchie within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; He was also a co-creator of Unix. Let's not forget to remember him also associated with the most influential operating ...

  1. #16
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    He was also a co-creator of Unix. Let's not forget to remember him also associated with the most influential operating system ever devised. Not just the creation of a programming language that forever shaped our computing world.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    The R, from the ever famous K&R combination, gone? I have a feeling K may not be long for this world. That's how it is with soul mates (no homo).

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    May he continue to write the universe in C in the after life. Thank you for the language, it is so wonderful.

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    I never got a chance to thank him...

  5. #20
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Ugh. I never should have subscribed to this thread...
    /me unsubscribes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Not the greatest of pioneers in my opinion, but nevertheless...
    Rest in peace. At least you created something positive in the world.
    If dmr is not a pioneer in the field of computer science, then who is, really?
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  7. #22
    Registered User manasij7479's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
    If dmr is not a pioneer in the field of computer science, then who is, really?
    Unfortunately, according to the media.. Steve Jobs was !!
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  8. #23
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
    If dmr is not a pioneer in the field of computer science, then who is, really?
    C is not a wonderful language, and Linux is not a great operating system in my opinion. And that is all I am going to say and why I regretted subscribing to the thread.
    The man did a lot of good to the world, but nothing wrong, so he deserves praise, but I am not going to endure praise to the works he created.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #24
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manasij7479 View Post
    Unfortunately, according to the media.. Steve Jobs was !!
    Even tech companies. Within minutes of Jobs passing Google had changed their front page to include a small text in his memory. That seemed nice and appropriate. However, as we can see, that hasn't happened to the man and his creations that, in no small measure, Google owes its business to.

    It should be appropriate though. His passing will go as quietly as the life he lead. Not a controversial or polarizing figure, he's the type that when our times exist only on history books, will gain his rightful position at the forefront of computing pioneers and celebrated to a better measure of his achievements.
    MK27, Salem, Yarin and 1 others like this.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #25
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    C is not a wonderful language, and Linux is not a great operating system in my opinion. And that is all I am going to say and why I regretted subscribing to the thread.
    The man did a lot of good to the world, but nothing wrong, so he deserves praise, but I am not going to endure praise to the works he created.
    Sheesh, and that is after you said you were "unsubscribing to this thread", lol. Do you have a little scraper that periodically checks cboard for your name being mentioned? ;P

    A true monotheist, one god, one church, all others are infidels. I presume the way the Elysia dictionary works is:

    The great language: C++
    The great operating system: MS windows.

    A little tautological, don't you think? Have people ever teased you for being an "air-head" (or its Swedish equivalent), lol? Nb. also:

    1) I don't think Ritchie has ever had anything to do with linux*, so it is interesting this is what you connect him with. He never had a beef with Torvalds tho. I guess that is one of the privileges of making your living as an independent researcher: you do not have to speak as a representative of a commercial interest.

    2) Just a hunch: MS DOS and windows were developed originally in C. Without C, there would never have been Elysia's favorite operating system. Even more true of her fav language, of course.

    I do think Ritchie should be considered a much more historically important figure, evolution of technology wise, than Steve Jobs, but I also accept that the public is unlikely to be able to understand that. Hence:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Within minutes of Jobs passing Google had changed their front page to include a small text in his memory. That seemed nice and appropriate. However, as we can see, that hasn't happened to the man and his creations that, in no small measure, Google owes its business to.
    Looks to me like cynical PR -- Google is just trying to seem big hearted to their user base, and not clutter things up with nerdy observations no one is interested in. Dumb them down, I say! Dumb them down!

    *But I imagine he was happy to see it succeed in the way that it did...Nice interview with Richie from 11 years ago (apparently he liked snowboarding, lol):
    http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/Ju...article79.html
    Last edited by MK27; 10-14-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  11. #26
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    C is not a wonderful language
    When evaluating the contribution of Dennis Ritchie (and Ken Thompson) in the area of programming languages, just looking at what C is now compared to what your vision of a "wonderful language" is would be a huge oversight. While reading the various responses to his passing, I came across an assertion: "C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success." It turns out that this assessment is from an essay on The Development of the C Language, written by... Dennis Ritchie.

    Here's what I wrote shortly after kermit posted to alert us:
    dmr, thank you for all the contribution that you made. We may sometimes wish that you did not choose to null terminate strings in C, but that your choice has such an impact on many areas of computing is just one testament to the great reach of your work
    That is my point: the scope of the influence of his work is breathtaking. Yes, it was and is flawed, but at the same time it pragmatically enabled progress, bearing fruit pretty much everywhere. Qualifying it with "at least" sets a bar so high that you are effectively saying that even the greatest of pioneers, whoever he/she is, is only marginally better than mediocre. Maybe that is really what you think, but that is a sad evaluation, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Linux is not a great operating system in my opinion.
    If you had said this when evaluating the contribution of Linus Torvalds, then it would make sense. Linux is just one operating system that can trace part of its ancestry (though not in direct code base, for the most part) to Unix.
    Last edited by laserlight; 10-14-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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  12. #27
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Sheesh, and that is after you said you were "unsubscribing to this thread", lol. Do you have a little scraper that periodically checks cboard for your name being mentioned? ;P
    I use the new posts feature of the board periodically. Especially after getting a reply notification.

    A true monotheist, one god, one church, all others are infidels. I presume the way the Elysia dictionary works is:

    The great language: C++
    The great operating system: MS windows.

    A little tautological, don't you think? Have people ever teased you for being an "air-head" (or its Swedish equivalent), lol? Nb. also:
    I am pretty open-minded when it comes to things. But as you know, it is also possible to have favorites and dislikes.
    I have never found a language that comes to C++, and that is still why I like it. Should there come a new language that surpasses C++ (in today's world, it seems unlikely, but hey, who knows?), I would definitely pick it up. It's just that things I really take for granted do not exist in other languages.
    The same is true for operating systems (in the desktop space). We to choose from Windows, Linux (too much command line, file-based approach, very C-oriented community) and Mac OS (I guess you can "guess" what I am thinking of this and why I avoid it).

    1) I don't think Ritchie has ever had anything to do with linux*, so it is interesting this is what you connect him with. He never had a beef with Torvalds tho. I guess that is one of the privileges of making your living as an independent researcher: you do not have to speak as a representative of a commercial interest.
    Well, I'm not very familiar with him, so I miswrote. I should have mentioned Unix. I didn't know he was connected to Unix, so I simply read or remembered wrong and typed Linux instead of Unix.

    2) Just a hunch: MS DOS and windows were developed originally in C. Without C, there would never have been Elysia's favorite operating system. Even more true of her fav language, of course.
    For this, I do praise him. Without his contributions, the world would be where it is today. Especially when it comes to C, from where almost all modern languages are derived.
    I just don't like C being around, and I don't like "seeing" people liking C. It's annoying to me, but everyone has a right to an opinion, so I just avoid the places where people like C (which is why I unsubscribed and avoid the C board).

    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    When evaluating the contribution of Dennis Ritchie (and Ken Thompson) in the area of programming languages, just looking at what C is now compared to what your vision of a "wonderful language" is would be a huge oversight. While reading the various responses to his passing, I came across an assertion: "C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success." It turns out that this assessment is from an essay on The Development of the C Language, written by... Dennis Ritchie.
    C was great, at its time of invention. It just hasn't evolved IMHO.
    So yeah, I am grateful for Dennis inventing the language. It provided a base for the world to grow upon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #28
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I am pretty open-minded when it comes to things.
    I think you should go into some personal soul searching, because open-mindedness is not something I ever associated you with. But you are going to say I'm wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But as you know, it is also possible to have favorites and dislikes.
    Yes. You just rarely express your preferences in those terms. It comes always after the fact (that and your use of the word 'opinion') as an attempt to justify your extreme behavior towards the things you don't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Should there come a new language that surpasses C++ (in today's world, it seems unlikely, but hey, who knows?), I would definitely pick it up.
    And so here's an example. Your preference for C++ translates in a hollow statement that really doesn't make any sense until you are able to actually materialize what it means to "surpass C++", or what it makes C++ a superior language to anything you ever found (if you actually ever cared to study other languages, which I doubt very much). You just betray your irrational preference, and instead if being honest about it (because irrational preferences or dislike are in fact perfectly fine), you actually transform your preferences into a statement of authority as the one above. And then become very much surprised when confronted about it. Well duh!
    Last edited by Mario F.; 10-14-2011 at 10:16 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #29
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I think you should go into some personal soul searching, because open-mindedness is not something I ever associated you with. But you are going to say I'm wrong...
    I am not going to say you are wrong because there is no point.
    People are defined by their actions, not words, no? You wouldn't believe me even if I did say so.

    Yes. You just rarely express your preferences in those terms. It comes always after the fact (that and your use of the word 'opinion') as an attempt to justify your extreme behavior towards the things you don't like.
    This is the web. A message board. You can't see emotions behind posts.
    I don't go around shouting curse you this, curse you that, screw you, go kill yourself, or the like.
    But I don't go around posting lots of emoticons to "soften" the messages either.
    Keep that in mind when you think I am touting facts.

    And so here's an example. Your preference for C++ translates in a hollow statement that really doesn't make any sense until you are able to actually materialize what it means to "surpass C++", or what it makes C++ a superior language to anything you ever found (if you actually ever cared to study other languages, which I doubt very much). You just betray your irrational preference, and instead if being honest about it (because irrational preferences or dislike are in fact perfectly fine), you actually transform your preferences into a statement of authority as the one above. And then become very much surprised when confronted about it. Well duh!
    I'm surprised you even bother seeing as we do not see eye to eye.
    Anyway, I have used other languages. Java, C, Javascript, C#, VB, PHP are some of what I can remember. Granted, some of them were a long since I last used (Javascript, C#, VB), so I can't say how accurately they've evolved.
    What I do know is that they are still garbage collected, and have no concept of RAII. Two disadvantages in my opinion. Java doesn't even have multiple inheritance of non-public inheritance.
    So what do I mean by surpass? Simple. A language that I get less frustrated working with. When working with Java, PHP and the like, it's always annoying when you have to deal with having to manually clean up instead of relying on RAII. Remove that barrier and it's a win. Add more productivity features that makes it easier to write code is also a win. If you can call Microsoft's new C++ extensions for Win8 a new language, then I like it more than C++, because it introduces some things that C++ sorely lacks, and because of that, there are more features that appeal to me and make the language less frustrating.
    Also, call me lazy. I don't want to bother taking the time to do research and learn new stuff all the time. Give me something that has clear advantages, or point me in the right direction, and I would definitely learn/use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #30
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    RIP dmr. Sad to hear this news.
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