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my first free application TurboC Patcher :)

This is a discussion on my first free application TurboC Patcher :) within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; The only thing more dead than grunge music is...um...Turbo C....

  1. #16
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    The only thing more dead than grunge music is...um...Turbo C.

  2. #17
    ATH0 quzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirtualAce View Post
    The only thing more dead than grunge music is...um...Turbo C.
    You wouldn't know it from reading the C forum.


    Quzah.
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    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

  3. #18
    بابلی ریکا Masterx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    If it's only for the students of one bassackwards university, why promote it here? It seems as though you are promoting the continued use of an antiquity for reasons that clearly don't make a lot of sense. Were I to read this another way, I might form the impression that the *teachers* are the ones scared by the new standards and just plain too lazy to upgrade their own skills and curriculum to embrace them.... at their student's expense.

    Supporting something this bent is clearly a mistake.
    mind if i start with the second part?
    i think its pretty much it . if they were professional in the new standards they wouldn't have had this much of problems . where i live , they still continue to print out books with C90 standards !. students are barely eager to buy books like Deitel and Deitels C++ how to program,books due to its price , mostly ( more than 80~90 percent) just want to pass the C++ course and they go and buy these cheap 5 to 7 $ c90 standard based books . so technically the teachers are more tempted to go use TC cuz the majority of books out there are still teaching C++ in TC !! . only a small fraction of students go read new C++ books (just because of their interest in the language itself or embarking on a new C++ project which needs to be used with the latest technologies) , and also mostly those knowing English and those who are active in forums like cprogramming boards .
    i am myself one of those students who started my activities in this board back in 2007 knowing absolutely nothing , and i clearly remember the laiserlight and matsp and others telling me to get ride of TC (and the headache i gave them!), i even didnt know the difference between a compiler and an IDE! and yes i found about new C++ here . and the likes of me , in where i study are really small in numbers!
    all in all you can now see why i programed such a thing .
    and for the first part :
    i think i already answered it

    and it is sad , but mostly , in my country , students dont use C++, they are more eager to use Vb, C# , VB.net and the likes , and thats why C++ is stuck at TC and C90 standards !
    and by the way here is the app at softpedia
    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Program...-Patcher.shtml
    Highlight Your Codes
    The Boost C++ Libraries (online Reference)

    "...a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are,in short, a perfect match.."
    Bill Bryson


  4. #19
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
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    Your program hardly helps students embrace the new standard.
    If a university needs to use TC(++) for some reason, then fine, develop the program for them and let them use it.
    But for the love of the gods, don't spread it on the web. Turbo C(++) is poison and should be treated as such. No excuses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #20
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterx View Post
    and it is sad , but mostly , in my country , students dont use C++, they are more eager to use Vb, C# , VB.net and the likes , and thats why C++ is stuck at TC and C90 standards !
    Not that you are doing anything to stop that.

    I don't think you've understood yet the full meaning of what is being said to you on this thread.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #21
    بابلی ریکا Masterx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Your program hardly helps students embrace the new standard.
    If a university needs to use TC(++) for some reason, then fine, develop the program for them and let them use it.
    But for the love of the gods, don't spread it on the web. Turbo C(++) is poison and should be treated as such. No excuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Not that you are doing anything to stop that.

    I don't think you've understood yet the full meaning of what is being said to you on this thread.
    Ok i stop further development of this evil program
    any idea what to start instead ?
    Highlight Your Codes
    The Boost C++ Libraries (online Reference)

    "...a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are,in short, a perfect match.."
    Bill Bryson


  7. #22
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterx View Post
    Ok i stop further development of this evil program
    any idea what to start instead ?
    Want to help the students? Write a parser that goes through all that old code and flags outdated functions and practices, suggesting an alternative or writing a custom function for a newer compiler that will provide similar functionality.

  8. #23
    بابلی ریکا Masterx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
    Want to help the students? Write a parser that goes through all that old code and flags outdated functions and practices, suggesting an alternative or writing a custom function for a newer compiler that will provide similar functionality.
    Thank you , that sounds like a good idea , but it also seems to be demanding .
    thanks again
    Highlight Your Codes
    The Boost C++ Libraries (online Reference)

    "...a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are,in short, a perfect match.."
    Bill Bryson


  9. #24
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    It's really sad to see people writing crap like "Turbo C++ is poison." It was an incredibly good compiler in its time. It is now out of date, that is all.

    Funny how people love to pedantically point out that an integer isn't always 32 bits, for instance, then when presented with an example of a compiler that actually HAS integers that aren't 32 bits, they freak out like the compiler has AIDS or something. Anybody doing serious C development in the DOS days was using Turbo C++, period.

    Any program that does anything real will, at some point, make use of stuff outside the C standard. The C language itself was invented in order to write the UNIX kernel, which makes use of exactly NOTHING from the C standard library.

    As long as people clearly understand that Turbo C++ is from the past, and things are different now, I see no reason to freak out about it.
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    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

  10. #25
    Registered User MacNilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
    Want to help the students? Write a parser that goes through all that old code and flags outdated functions and practices, suggesting an alternative or writing a custom function for a newer compiler that will provide similar functionality.
    Wow, that is a great idea!

    Off the top of my head:

    void main()
    getch()
    gotoxy()
    anything from Turbo C
    gets
    system("pause")
    ...etc

    Once Masterx has the final version implemented and tested, we can install it on the website and preprocess all newly posted code. If its not up to snuff, dont allow the post.
    Masterx likes this.

  11. #26
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    It's really sad to see people writing crap like "Turbo C++ is poison."
    Agreed. It was one of the first available C++ compilers and Borland did a great job with it. I think this thread is talking about Turbo C which came out using the same IDE but long before the C++ version. It's fun to joke about it but it was a good compiler in its day. The irony of the thread though is that the free compilers out there today are obviously vastly superior to those compilers now. Why anyone would waste time with the older versions is beyond me.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirtualAce View Post
    Agreed. It was one of the first available C++ compilers and Borland did a great job with it. I think this thread is talking about Turbo C which came out using the same IDE but long before the C++ version. It's fun to joke about it but it was a good compiler in its day. The irony of the thread though is that the free compilers out there today are obviously vastly superior to those compilers now. Why anyone would waste time with the older versions is beyond me.
    Ok, you're a first year CS or Engineering student, your teacher is handing out CDs or even floppies with this nifty tool called a compiler. Up to that moment you had no idea how programs were created ... and you didn't really care. In some cases you may not even know how to operate the computer, never mind suddenly writing programs...

    Are you in any position to judge the *quality* of the education you are about to receive?

    While I will grant that a lot of the stuff from Turbo C does apply to other compilers and the core principles are the same no matter what language or compiler, the fact remains that when Teach is handing out 20 year old compilers, designed for operating systems that no longer exist he is effectively sabotaging his student's futures from day 1 of the course... With rare exception, the students are none the wiser, until years later when they discover their expensive and often difficult educations leave them sitting on the unemployment line wondering what went wrong...

    The reaction we see so often --defending an antiquity-- is, likely as not, a defensive reaction to discovering just how badly behind the times their schools realy are... What we DO NOT need is software to enable an education that is fast undermining entire professions.

    I happen to agree that TC and TC++ were pretty impressive in their days. I remember trying them out and moving over to Turbo Pascal because (at the time) I liked the syntax better and it had real strings... I found nothing wrong with them -- *at the time*. But things have changed rather a lot and this is no longer true. Borland killed Pascal by dumping Delphi all over it. Computer technology changed. Operating Systems got better... The old software's day is come and gone... decades ago, in the case of Borland products.

    It's time to retire the old guy... bring in the new guy.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterx View Post
    Thank you , that sounds like a good idea , but it also seems to be demanding .
    thanks again
    Nobody ever said programming is easy.

  14. #29
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater
    Nobody ever said programming is easy.
    Hmm... a quick search of the Web shows that this guy said programming is easy: Programming is Easy, Software Development is Hard
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
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    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
    Want to help the students? Write a parser that goes through all that old code and flags outdated functions and practices, suggesting an alternative or writing a custom function for a newer compiler that will provide similar functionality.
    I don't know if you've ever taken the time or not... but Pelles C (yeah, I know, you're tired of me talking about it) is something of a bridge from the old to the new... It has most of TC's library included with the C-99 library and clearly identified as "non-standard" (prefixed with an underscore) where appropriate. It even as a compiler flag (/Go) that accepts the older (unmarked) versions of these functions to make it mostly compatible with TC and older versions of so called "TC Compatible" compilers. Pelle also poured a LOT of time into the library creating such nicities as WIN32_DEFAULT_LIBS that automatically identifies libraries when API headers are added. The same care went into the help file, documenting everything all in one very well written CHM file...

    Although he has told us many times that he simply created what he needed to do his work, there is considerable evidence Pelle went well beyond simply that... addressing this issue before it became an issue!

    Now, don't get me wrong here... I'm no Pelles C fanboi. If there was a better programming tool available; I'd be there in a heartbeat and I've frequently looked into other languages and compilers (much to the chagrin of some here).

    My point is that here is this tool... this compiler, with everything these students need (except BGI Graphics, which were terrible even back then) and it is being roundly ignored by both schools and the corporate world... The parser you suggest already exists... Pelles warns you about "old school" coding methods and in some cases will actually suggest better functions (getch vs getchar for example). And it's FREE!

    What I don't understand is why, given the chance, an educational system that purports to be leading edge would ignore such tools and necessitate the reinvention of old ways on new systems... Especially when the price of doing so is practically 0.
    Last edited by CommonTater; 10-05-2011 at 02:45 AM. Reason: Typo... typo... everywhere a typo!
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