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God hates cross-posters!

This is a discussion on God hates cross-posters! within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Mario F. Because you don't care. It's circular reasoning, mate. We got it in the first post ...

  1. #46
    ATH0 quzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Because you don't care. It's circular reasoning, mate. We got it in the first post and you don't need to go off your way explaining why you think it's silly. Or I may start to think... you care
    So you think I should ignore people that reply to me? Why even address me if you are going to be irritated that I replied at all? So basically, threads should only ever let you post once in them? That's pretty much what you're saying. So you are taking cross posting one step further, and saying to talk more than once in a thread is taboo.

    Didn't you just break your own rule then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    (gosh, I can't stand these smileys!)
    Yes, they are absolutely terrible.


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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    So you think I should ignore people that reply to me?
    Nope. You just seem too invested in explaining why everyone who cares is silly and you aren't silly because you don't care. I find your position comfortable, especially when any argument thrown at you, is readily dismissed with some form of "but I don't care about that". Just letting you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    So basically, threads should only ever let you post once in them? That's pretty much what you're saying. So you are taking cross posting one step further, and saying to talk more than once in a thread is taboo.
    You know I didn't say or imply any of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    Didn't you just break your own rule then?
    I do that often for the sake of self preservation (break my own rules, that is). But it wasn't the case this time because there's no such rule.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    any argument thrown at you, is readily dismissed with some form of "but I don't care about that".
    There is no argument. The only thing that has been said was by cyber, and tater, and it was the same thing: "it irritates me, but I don't have any reason why".

    Why should I try to find some justification for it when they don't? I already asked for a good reason. No one had one other that purely subjective reasoning.

    Besides, this entire topic/thread was "who agrees with me?" (see the first post). Why read a thread where the first post starts with "debate is good", if you don't like debates?


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    I do have a reason why.

    It shows that the poster is selfish, and doesn't care about wasting other people's time, and just wants answers as fast as possible.

    Why should I limit myself to one source of information, when I could try four at the same time? How do I know someone is going to even answer me on one of them? How do I know the popularity of the site? Why should I even care? I don't just look at one web page when I'm trying to figure out something. Why should I restrict myself to just one forum if I'm looking for a speedy answer?
    Note that I have no problem with cross-posting. I only have problem with cross-posting when the poster doesn't make it clear that he is cross-posting. I find it dishonest and rude, and I don't like helping dishonest and rude people, in both real life and online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    I do have a reason why.

    It shows that the poster is selfish, and doesn't care about wasting other people's time, and just wants answers as fast as possible.
    What's wrong with wanting a fast answer? We want fast food, why not fast answers?

    I mean, if they actually wanted a slow answer, they'd be on Google, not a message board. There wouldn't even be a need for message boards if people didn't want fast answers.

    edit - And why is it any more selfish of them to want a fast answer, than it is for you to want them to wait around until you get around to answering them?


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    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    What's wrong with wanting a fast answer? We want fast food, why not fast answers?
    It won't be any slower to make it clear that they are cross-posting, and it won't be deceiving. Unless, of course, they feel that people will be less inclined to answer if they know the post is cross-posted. In that case, they may or may not be right, but hiding the fact that they are cross-posting to get a faster response in this case is intentionally deceiving. I, and I'm assuming most other people, don't like being deceived.

    We want fast food, but we don't cut in lines to get it (at least I don't), because we recognize that not everyone else's existence is for the purpose of giving us food as fast as possible.

    edit - And why is it any more selfish of them to want a fast answer, than it is for you to want them to wait around until you get around to answering them?
    Because they are getting a lot more out of this transaction than I am, so I'm expecting them to be more courteous. Same reason why when I try to arrange a meeting time with a professor to talk about MY problems, I try to make myself as available as possible, but don't expect the professor to do the same. I patiently wait for him to get around to me at his convenience. I also try to do all I can do minimize his time I have to use.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by quzah View Post
    Why should I try to find some justification for it when they don't? I already asked for a good reason. No one had one other that purely subjective reasoning.
    I feel you. I don't think however is sometimes easy to explain why sometimes irritates me. Some of these things are as irrational as often not caring for something can be. They just are what they are.

    The thing is that I also don't care about cross-posting (with the one exception below). But I also don't care if people care, which by extension means I don't think it's silly to care. So your stance confuses me personally. And I don't know how much of your speech isn't the result of you caring if other people care, and how much is just you answering when addressed. Feel me?

    There's also the issue of context. I don't think all cross-posting irritates people in the same degree. Some may even not irritate them at all. Me? I just feel irritated when an answer was already given and the OP posts the same question again on another forum. As you can see it's not even a common occurrence. But it's a form of trolling and I care about trolls. Just not in a complimentary way. Now ask me why I care about trolls and I'll probably get stumped. But I'll keep caring about trolling.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    It won't be any slower to make it clear that they are cross-posting, and it won't be deceiving. Unless, of course, they feel that people will be less inclined to answer if they know the post is cross-posted. In that case, they may or may not be right, but hiding the fact that they are cross-posting to get a faster response in this case is intentionally deceiving. I, and I'm assuming most other people, don't like being deceived.
    How is that deception? If I don't tell you I have a car, I'm not lying to you if you don't ask if I have a car. I shouldn't have to volunteer every possible piece of information about myself in every situation. Do you start every post with: "Did you crosspost?" Do you go research every forum to see if every post is crossposted before you click on the link or reply to it? You have the ability to do so. That's not any more a deception on their part than it is laziness on your part.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    We want fast food, but we don't cut in lines to get it (at least I don't), because we recognize that not everyone else's existence is for the purpose of giving us food as fast as possible.
    They aren't taking cuts. It's more like walking into the bank, seeing three tellers are open, and saying "Who wants to help me?"
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Because they are getting a lot more out of this transaction than I am, so I'm expecting them to be more courteous.
    So you are selfish. You want them to cater to you, you don't want to cater to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Same reason why when I try to arrange a meeting time with a professor to talk about MY problems, I try to make myself as available as possible, but don't expect the professor to do the same. I patiently wait for him to get around to me at his convenience. I also try to do all I can do minimize his time I have to use.
    But the internet isn't like a professor each off in their own part of the campus. It's also not a one on one conversation. It's more like shouting into a room to see if anyone there can help you. Or something.

    You are expecting it to be something it's not. It's not one on one chat. Hell, people on phones today aren't even one on one. People talk to their friends and talk to people on the phone at the same time. You can talk to someone on the phone and chat with someone. You can have five IM windows open and talk to five different people at the same time.

    It's silly to expect people to only look at one source of information, when there is an entire world of information for them to look at.

    You should be equally miffed that they ask a message on a forum, and then come back and say "I found it on Google."

    DANG YOU GOOGLE! I WAS GOING TO ANSWER THAT!


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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    So your stance confuses me personally. And I don't know how much of your speech isn't the result of you caring if other people care, and how much is just you answering when addressed. Feel me?
    I'm just debating for something to do. It's the same reason I post on the C board, to kill time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    There's also the issue of context. I don't think all cross-posting irritates people in the same degree. Some may even not irritate them at all. Me? I just feel irritated when an answer was already given and the OP posts the same question again on another forum. As you can see it's not even a common occurrence. But it's a form of trolling and I care about trolls. Just not in a complimentary way. Now ask me why I care about trolls and I'll probably get stumped. But I'll keep caring about trolling.
    I see the similarity. It's the same type of caring/not caring. Either it's something that irritates you or it doesn't. There isn't necessarily a reason for it, it just is.

    No one is going to stop people from cross posting, so I think it's silly to complain about it. It's different than telling people about code tags, because if they listen, every post afterward they will use code tags, and that will actually do something useful. But if they stopcross posting, I still won't care. (oldsmileyfacethatdoesn'tsuck)


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    How is that deception? If I don't tell you I have a car, I'm not lying to you if you don't ask if I have a car. I shouldn't have to volunteer every possible piece of information about myself in every situation. Do you start every post with: "Did you crosspost?" Do you go research every forum to see if every post is crossposted before you click on the link or reply to it? You have the ability to do so. That's not any more a deception on their part than it is laziness on your part.
    Would you say the same for someone not telling you they have AIDS before having sex with you?

    Not disclosing something IS deceiving when the general expectation is the contrary, and you expect to gain something you otherwise would not by not disclosing the information (sex or faster reply). There is a difference between "hiding because I don't think it matters" and "hiding because it helps my goal". In a way, this is lying by implying the default.

    They aren't taking cuts. It's more like walking into the bank, seeing three tellers are open, and saying "Who wants to help me?"
    Ah, but if a teller helps you, the other 2 can help other people. It would be the same as (somehow) cloning yourself into 3, go to all 3 tellers, and see which one can help you the fastest, then just walk away from the other 2 that are still trying to help you.

    So you are selfish. You want them to cater to you, you don't want to cater to them.
    That is correct. They want my help, so they should be more courteous. I do the same when I want anyone else's help. This is how society expects us to behave. A beggar is always available for you to give him food. You aren't expected to always be available for him to get food from you. I am the beggar when I want some information from you, with nothing in return.

    But the internet isn't like a professor each off in their own part of the campus. It's also not a one on one conversation. It's more like shouting into a room to see if anyone there can help you. Or something.

    You are expecting it to be something it's not. It's not one on one chat. Hell, people on phones today aren't even one on one. People talk to their friends and talk to people on the phone at the same time. You can talk to someone on the phone and chat with someone. You can have five IM windows open and talk to five different people at the same time.
    This is the same as the tellers situation.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Would you say the same for someone not telling you they have AIDS before having sex with you?
    So reading forums is life and death for you? You need to get out more. Also, this comparison assumes that I just have sex with anyone who wanders by. That's a failure of a comparison any way you look at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Not disclosing something IS deceiving when the general expectation is the contrary, and you expect to gain something you otherwise would not by not disclosing the information (sex or faster reply). There is a difference between "hiding because I don't think it matters" and "hiding because it helps my goal". In a way, this is lying by implying the default.
    You seem to take way more offense at cross posting than any normal sane person would. I'm not harming you by not telling you that I've searched elsewhere for help. It does in no way harm you. You are freely wasting your time reading message boards. You are freely wasting your time by replying to posts. There's no law or rule that says "If you post anywhere else on the internet, you can't post here!"

    Why is there no such rule? Because that would be stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Ah, but if a teller helps you, the other 2 can help other people. It would be the same as (somehow) cloning yourself into 3, go to all 3 tellers, and see which one can help you the fastest, then just walk away from the other 2 that are still trying to help you.
    You've completely negated your own argument without knowing it. Thanks. I love that.

    "Wait, what?"

    You negate your own argument by the very fact that YOU are all three tellers. YOU are checking three message boards, and replying in three different places. YOU are wasting YOUR OWN TIME by not staying on one board. You are your own enemy.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    That is correct. They want my help, so they should be more courteous. I do the same when I want anyone else's help. This is how society expects us to behave. A beggar is always available for you to give him food. You aren't expected to always be available for him to get food from you. I am the beggar when I want some information from you, with nothing in return.
    It's not discourteous to ask multiple people for help. If it were, message boards in and over their very nature would be self defeating. Unless you lock a thread after it has 1 reply, then your argument has just failed itself. The very nature of message boards let multiple people answer the same question. What does it matter if they are all answered in the same thread? It doesn't.

    We've already established that multiple answers by multiple people are not guaranteed to be the same exact answer, and that every answer is simply a wording variation. So you've just shot off your other foot.

    Your entire argument boils down to "I should be allowed to be selfish, not the guy asking for help!" The guy asking for help has no idea that any of you are even there. It's like shouting into a dark room, and hoping someone is there, then walking to the next dark room and shouting into it. He doesn't know if anyone is around. Why should he stand around for hours at one door way, when there is another one right across the hall?


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    So reading forums is life and death for you? You need to get out more. Also, this comparison assumes that I just have sex with anyone who wanders by. That's a failure of a comparison any way you look at it.
    The example is just to illustrate the point that, not disclosing can be the same as deceiving. It's an extreme case.

    You seem to take way more offense at cross posting than any normal sane person would. I'm not harming you by not telling you that I've searched elsewhere for help. It does in no way harm you. You are freely wasting your time reading message boards. You are freely wasting your time by replying to posts. There's no law or rule that says "If you post anywhere else on the internet, you can't post here!"

    Why is there no such rule? Because that would be stupid.
    Like I said before, I am NOT wasting my time discussing on forums. My time is valuable, and I want it to be useful, to both myself and others.

    There's no law saying you can't cross-post. There's also no law saying you have to use code tags.

    Though I would support adding a rules for the forum - "If you cross-posted in another forum, they must be linked from your post here".

    You negate your own argument by the very fact that YOU are all three tellers. YOU are checking three message boards, and replying in three different places. YOU are wasting YOUR OWN TIME by not staying on one board. You are your own enemy.
    I am not? I never go on and even less post on other programming boards. The 2 other tellers are other people.

    It's not discourteous to ask multiple people for help. If it were, message boards in and over their very nature would be self defeating. Unless you lock a thread after it has 1 reply, then your argument has just failed itself. The very nature of message boards let multiple people answer the same question. What does it matter if they are all answered in the same thread? It doesn't.
    Again, I am NOT against cross-posting, which seem to be all you are arguing. I AM against cross-posting AND not disclosing the fact that you are cross-posting.

    Multiple replies are fine if everyone can see all replies.

    We've already established that multiple answers by multiple people are not guaranteed to be the same exact answer, and that every answer is simply a wording variation. So you've just shot off your other foot.
    Multiple answers can be helpful and unhelpful. If you don't know what other people have said, there is a higher chance yours will be unhelpful.

    Your entire argument boils down to "I should be allowed to be selfish, not the guy asking for help!" The guy asking for help has no idea that any of you are even there. It's like shouting into a dark room, and hoping someone is there, then walking to the next dark room and shouting into it. He doesn't know if anyone is around. Why should he stand around for hours at one door way, when there is another one right across the hall?
    No it does not. And it's not the same. If you are someone in the dark room, you'll just turn around, see the person is no longer there, and turn back to your own business. You have only expanded minimum effort.

    It's like shouting into a dark room, asking everyone to write a poem for you, and after they are done, they realize the person was gone right after he made that request. He already got the poem from another guy. He just told everyone to write one for him, so he can get it as soon as possible. Of course, everyone thinks they are the only one writing the poem. Everyone else just wasted time writing a poem. Is that fine by you, too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    The example is just to illustrate the point that, not disclosing can be the same as deceiving. It's an extreme case.
    But it's not deception when it's not expected disclosure. There's no expectation of disclosure in posting on a forum. There's no implied rule that says "don't post anywhere else on the interent", because that would be stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Like I said before, I am NOT wasting my time discussing on forums. My time is valuable, and I want it to be useful, to both myself and others.
    It's not too valuable, since you're cutting your own throat by being on multiple forums. Why would you post on multiple forums, and then turn around and tell them not to? That's a complete double standard.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    There's no law saying you can't cross-post. There's also no law saying you have to use code tags.
    There is on this forum. If you post code, you post it in code tags. The forum software even tries to enforce it, and to tell you when you aren't using them.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Though I would support adding a rules for the forum - "If you cross-posted in another forum, they must be linked from your post here".

    I am not? I never go on and even less post on other programming boards. The 2 other tellers are other people.

    Again, I am NOT against cross-posting, which seem to be all you are arguing. I AM against cross-posting AND not disclosing the fact that you are cross-posting.

    Multiple replies are fine if everyone can see all replies.
    They can see them - if they split their time amongst multiple forums like you do. Also, you are splitting YOUR time across multiple forums, why shouldn't I be able to split my time across multiple forums asking for help? Again, it's a complete double standard.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Multiple answers can be helpful and unhelpful. If you don't know what other people have said, there is a higher chance yours will be unhelpful.
    Again, double standard. You are ok with YOU going to multiple forums to read multiple things, but not for people wanting help.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    No it does not. And it's not the same. If you are someone in the dark room, you'll just turn around, see the person is no longer there, and turn back to your own business. You have only expanded minimum effort.

    It's like shouting into a dark room, asking everyone to write a poem for you, and after they are done, they realize the person was gone right after he made that request. He already got the poem from another guy. He just told everyone to write one for him, so he can get it as soon as possible. Of course, everyone thinks they are the only one writing the poem. Everyone else just wasted time writing a poem. Is that fine by you, too?
    Then everyone is stupid in your example.

    No one here should expect to be the only one answering a question. When I post any given answer, I know that I can be beaten to the punch by someone else on the same forum, submitting at the same time. It doesn't stop me from posting though. Just like I don't expect them to only post on one forum.

    The problem is you, and everyone else complaining about posting on multiple forums, are complete hypocrites. You can post on multiple forums, but woe to anyone who needs help! They aren't allowed to!

    You are all hypocrites.


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    Again, why do you keep saying I post on multiple forums?

    I DO NOT post on multiple programming forums. This is the only programming forum I post on.

    But it's not deception when it's not expected disclosure. There's no expectation of disclosure in posting on a forum. There's no implied rule that says "don't post anywhere else on the interent", because that would be stupid.
    Well, that's perfect example of circular logic. It would be an implied rule if the result of this discussion is that it is wrong to cross-post WITHOUT DISCLOSING.

    Since you have moved on to personal attacks, I will move on to more meaningful things, too. I will stop posting unless another real argument comes up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Again, why do you keep saying I post on multiple forums?

    I DO NOT post on multiple programming forums. This is the only programming forum I post on.
    If you don't go to other forums, then how do you know they are crossposting, and why do you even care? If you don't go there, then you don't know, so your time isn't any more wasted than if someone here beats you to a post. Do you get mad when I post one second before you do? If you do go there, but don't post, and just use that time to check up on people before deciding to help them or not, then you are just wasting your own time anyway. If you don't, then you shouldn't care, because you are blissfully unaware of the crossposting in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Well, that's perfect example of circular logic. It would be an implied rule if the result of this discussion is that it is wrong to cross-post WITHOUT DISCLOSING.
    It's not to a new poster. It's only an implied rule for people who are use to posting on forums all the time, and even then, only to the grouchy ones with nothing better to do with their time than to complain about people seeking help from multiple avenues.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Since you have moved on to personal attacks, I will move on to more meaningful things, too. I will stop posting unless another real argument comes up.
    It's not a personal attack if you actually are a hypocrite. Saying it's OK for you to post on multiple forums, and saying it's not OK for someone else to do so, is hypocritical. Everyone says it is wrong for someone to ask on multiple forums for help, that actually offers help on multiple forums, is a hypocrite.

    So - do you think people should offer help on multiple forums? Or not?

    It's not a personal attack to call someone a liar if in fact they are a liar. Pointing out facts isn't a personal attack. (Note: I didn't call you a liar, I'm not implying you are a liar. I'm drawing a parallel. You could substitute the word 'liar' for anything you want, and it would still remain true.)


    Quzah.
    Last edited by quzah; 09-18-2011 at 07:49 PM.
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