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A crossroad on my life I want "internets" opinion job prospects

This is a discussion on A crossroad on my life I want "internets" opinion job prospects within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Hello folks, there is a long time since my last post. Nice to be back Oki I will ask for ...

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb A crossroad on my life I want "internets" opinion job prospects

    Hello folks, there is a long time since my last post. Nice to be back
    Oki I will ask for "internet" insight, not to take a final decision but maybe to see that other people around the world may think like me.
    I'm Brazilian 26 years old, graduated in Comp Science in the best University of the Country, not a great student but a B student I would say. I'm finishing my masters at the same institution and working full time at the biggest Brazillian Governamental IT Company as an Analyst. Current wage is about 5k reais. It is about 3 286.97 dollars + benefits. I work 40 hours/week flexible schedule. Usually from 10 am to 7 pm. I can do the schedule I want from 7 am to 9 pm. Oki the deal is I'm not happy I want to leave the country.
    I've studied one year in Germany and I speak both German and English. I wantto live in europe see the world for sakes not wait 50 years to retire in this job. My plan is to get a job in the embedded systems sector (subject of my masters) in Germany, Switzerland or maybe UK.
    Fast question am I retarded? Is this so utopical? Should I keep my current job drop all dreams and wait to rotten here? Oki being not so pessimistic are the stakes so against me? What would you do in my shoes?

  2. #2
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    I say go for it. There isn't really anything to lose for trying. You're still pretty young, so now is definitely the time to make a big move. The older you get, the harder it becomes. I'm assuming you are relatively unencumbered (no wife/kids, don't own a house, etc). Maybe you have some student loans, but that shouldn't be a huge problem, especially since your pay in the EU will probably be pretty good. If you are truly unhappy with where you are in life, then you should change whatever is making you upset, be it job, country, girlfriend, etc.

    I don't know much about the German economy, but I know they are doing better than most of the rest of Europe. I think there is a fair amount of embedded work there, particularly for automotive companies and industrial controls. At least in the US, the tech sector is quite strong despite the bad economy, but I don't know if this is true in Germany too.

    As somebody who was once in your shoes, and bought a one-way ticket for France (many years ago now, before the economic crisis), I can tell you that it can be a little bit tough getting a job in an EU country if you're not part of the EU. You need to find a job that will accept/sponsor foreign workers so you can get a work visa. This was difficult in France because they give priority first to French workers, then to EU workers. If they have no candidates from those two groups, then they look at foreign workers. I'm not sure if Germany is the same. Do lots of research first, and maybe talk to the German embassy in Brazil, or at least check out their website. Also, you can look for jobs in Ireland, which is part of the EU, but their economy is much worse. But if you manage that, you may eventually be able to get yourself into Germany since both are part of the EU. At the very least, you're still close if you just want to visit. Of course, there's Portugal, since you speak Portuguese, but their economy is not so hot either.

    I have heard that one workaround is to enroll in school -- you can probably pick any major. Being a student usually gives you legal rights to work in a country. Once you find a job, you can drop your courses. Of course, you may be out the money for enrollment and course fees, but it may be an avenue to try.

    Good luck! Keep me posted, I'd like to know how things work out for you.

  3. #3
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    The work situation for IT people in the German-speaking parts of Europe is quite good at the moment. You shouldn't have a problem getting a job. Getting a work permit is the hard part.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by anduril462 View Post
    I say go for it. There isn't really anything to lose for trying. You're still pretty young, so now is definitely the time to make a big move. The older you get, the harder it becomes. I'm assuming you are relatively unencumbered (no wife/kids, don't own a house, etc). Maybe you have some student loans, but that shouldn't be a huge problem, especially since your pay in the EU will probably be pretty good. If you are truly unhappy with where you are in life, then you should change whatever is making you upset, be it job, country, girlfriend, etc.

    I don't know much about the German economy, but I know they are doing better than most of the rest of Europe. I think there is a fair amount of embedded work there, particularly for automotive companies and industrial controls. At least in the US, the tech sector is quite strong despite the bad economy, but I don't know if this is true in Germany too.

    As somebody who was once in your shoes, and bought a one-way ticket for France (many years ago now, before the economic crisis), I can tell you that it can be a little bit tough getting a job in an EU country if you're not part of the EU. You need to find a job that will accept/sponsor foreign workers so you can get a work visa. This was difficult in France because they give priority first to French workers, then to EU workers. If they have no candidates from those two groups, then they look at foreign workers. I'm not sure if Germany is the same. Do lots of research first, and maybe talk to the German embassy in Brazil, or at least check out their website. Also, you can look for jobs in Ireland, which is part of the EU, but their economy is much worse. But if you manage that, you may eventually be able to get yourself into Germany since both are part of the EU. At the very least, you're still close if you just want to visit. Of course, there's Portugal, since you speak Portuguese, but their economy is not so hot either.

    I have heard that one workaround is to enroll in school -- you can probably pick any major. Being a student usually gives you legal rights to work in a country. Once you find a job, you can drop your courses. Of course, you may be out the money for enrollment and course fees, but it may be an avenue to try.

    Good luck! Keep me posted, I'd like to know how things work out for you.
    No wife, no kids, no loans! I'm finishing the masters, this is my current encumberance. Also I've worked for one year in germany as a student, so I have a good idea about what to expect. Even I've failed to comming back, partially due to the crysis, twice people called me to get a job as long as I had the masters (what was impossible due to time constraints at that time). But surely I'm unhappy. Maybe i'm on that verge of life where experience combined with inexperience grants me the will/opportunity to make big mistakes/moves/decisions.
    I will keep your guys posted, I got a good network of friends there, ppl from judo mostly and some university mates. Point is I feel that if I dont do it now I will keep regreting till the end of my life. As an insurance policy I'm doing a selection again to another goverment department here which pays equally as my current job so if all messes up I can get a job as well paid as my current one in about 1 year.

  5. #5
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I wouldn't be so eager Maragato. Currently Brazil is a booming economy with its feet firmly planted on the list of world emerging economies. While this title may at first glance seem dubious, don't be fooled; it's these countries that are currently benefiting from large worldwide investments. This will further grow the economy and opportunities. Particularly in your professional area. Also, with over twice the population of Germany and with its own Oil reserves placing it in the 17th worldwide position (a list in which Germany doesn't figure, I might add), Brazil is seen, among the emerging economies, the one with the greatest potential for growth in the world. I may not need to remind you that during Q1 2010, while pretty much the rest of the world was going through a recession, Brazil grew 4% and the biggest contributor was exactly the area of Services.

    Now, at the age of 23 I was already 4 years ahead of you, and working abroad (where I stayed well into my mid 30s). But that was because my country couldn't give me half the chances you have today in Brazil and not even 1/3 of your current wage. Since you have these opportunities, only through persuasion should you consider leaving your country, your language, and your people to work somewhere else. That is the place where you will find the greatest opportunities to establish a lasting and rewarding career... because it's your country. If you aren't happy, find another job. Otherwise you should only consider leaving if someone from abroad makes you an offer you can't refuse. Don't go on an adventure. And especially to Europe where the situation is currently not very clear in terms of where we are headed.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-07-2011 at 08:54 AM.
    Salem likes this.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I wouldn't be so eager Maragato. Currently Brazil is a booming economy with its feet firmly planted on the list of world emerging economies. While this title may at first glance seem dubious, don't be fooled; it's these countries that are currently benefiting from large worldwide investments. This will further grow the economy and opportunities. Particularly in your professional area. Also, with over twice the population of Germany and with its own Oil reserves placing it in the 17th worldwide position (a list in which Germany doesn't figure, I might add), Brazil is seen, among the emerging economies, the one with the greatest potential for growth in the world. I may not need to remind you that during Q1 2010, while pretty much the rest of the world was going through a recession, Brazil grew 4% and the biggest contributor was exactly the area of Services.

    Now, at the age of 23 I was already 4 years ahead of you, and working abroad (where I stayed well into my mid 30s). But that was because my country couldn't give me half the chances you have today in Brazil and not even 1/3 of your current wage. Since you have these opportunities, only through persuasion should you consider leaving your country, your language, and your people to work somewhere else. That is the place where you will find the greatest opportunities to establish a lasting and rewarding career... because it's your country. If you aren't happy, find another job. Otherwise you should only consider leaving if someone from abroad makes you an offer you can't refuse. Don't go on an adventure. And especially to Europe where the situation is currently not very clear in terms of where we are headed.
    I agree with some points and disagree with others. First question, where are you from where and where were you working? I'm not going on a adventure I wont just buy a ticket and go I. I'm finishing my masters and applying for skilled immigration. About being 4 years ahead of me. Well I'm 26, entere university at 17~18. Graduated with 23, having worked 1 year in this period in germany. Started a masters, got 90% of the masters done. Working on the biggest Brazilian IT governmental company how can I be so behind?

    Brazil has been an emerging economy since my father had my age, or better since his father had my age. People confuse wconomical growth with the repass of the economical surplus to the standards of living of the people. Albeit for the lower classes of the population, i.e. C, but mostly D and E. Have enjoyed a great growth in their purchase power the same had not happened to class B (my case). Class A does not count on this scenario as Brazil has one of the most uneven distributions of wealth in the world.

    Taking the percentage of population in each economical class
    A1 1%
    A2 4%
    B 24%
    C 43%
    D 25%
    E 3%

    As you might figure most part ofthe population is now in class C which is not bad for an emerging economy. But this is a very recent scenario which is the result of Lula's politics. Cause 20 million people ascended to class C since 2006.
    thou our Gini Coefficient has not improved so much as you can see
    1960 0,5367
    2007 0,5546
    2009 0,5448

    What all those mambo jambo numbers mean is our grouth is not repassed to the population as a whole. As I always comment to my parents, our standart of living have not improved much in the last years. But if you take a look for example in the maiden which cleans my parents house her life has improved A LOT. So there is growth but not as you might expect or as it might satisfy me.

  7. #7
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maragato View Post
    Working on the biggest Brazilian IT governmental company how can I be so behind?
    I think you misunderstood. I meant to say I was working abroad at the age of 19... well, to be exact 3 days before my 20th birthday. Meaning at your age I was already out of my country by close to 4 years. However circumstances where very different for me than they are for you.

    What all those mambo jambo numbers mean is our grouth is not repassed to the population as a whole. As I always comment to my parents, our standart of living have not improved much in the last years. But if you take a look for example in the maiden which cleans my parents house her life has improved A LOT. So there is growth but not as you might expect or as it might satisfy me.
    And if you think you can do better in Europe, you are probably going to be sorely disappointed... as well as collect a few good years of your life. This isn't the land of opportunity. And neither is Germany. While it is true it has been facing a deficit of engineers for quite a few years already (which, you might be pleased to know, have resulted in some facilitation of working permits), Germany is a strong economy that is currently facing a lot of pressure from irresponsible EU members that are threatening the European economy and, along with France and UK, pretty much the only thing standing against current markets speculation against the Euro. The economic situation in Europe is somewhat volatile at this point and not something you can trust.

    Also, I find it excellent that you discuss this with your father. And I'd be curious as to what he has to say to your fantastic idea that lifestyle in Brazil hasn't improved much over the years. I just so happen to be old enough to be your father too. I remember Brazil from when before you were born. With all due respect, in your short life as a young adult with enough sensitivity to gauge at these matters, you missed much. Namely the fact that just some 15 years ago there would be no way that someone with your exact same qualifications could be making the amount of cash you are doing today.

    As for "emerging economy", up until around 2000 Brazil was a potential emerging economy. Today it is a de facto emerging economy. There's a big difference. This transition was Lula's making or maybe it would happen anyways; it's irrelevant. What's relevant is that what you were hearing since you were a kid was the dreams and aspirations of politicians and informed citizens, and what you are hearing today is those aspirations come through. No doubt there's much, much, to be done. But comparing Brazil even 10 years ago to the Brazil today is only possible on the mind of someone who was only 13 at the time. Sorry mate.

    First question, where are you from where and where were you working?
    As you can see under my avatar, I'm an irmão from Portugal. I started up in Angola as the company I was working for (and second job at the time) won a contest to help develop a national budget and control software for the Ministry of Finance there. From there I went to work near Toronto, Canada on a lovely young town named Bobcaygeon, to help establish a startup during the dot-com bubble years. Later I went to Adelaide, Australia where I stayed and got married up until some 7 years ago, when I finally returned.

    EDIT: Anyways, I don't like feeling like a wet blanket. You are a grown up man and apparently bent on your decision. But you did ask for opinions... so there.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-07-2011 at 12:27 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    I don't have time to elaborate now but just to make one thing clear. Mario thanks a lot for the messages. Don't take then as if I'm blaming you. I got this "blatant" way to express myself but by no means I disregard your opinion. But as you gave me many arguments I replied with some others which support my point. My hope is that trough discussion with people like you with a good experience I can avoid at least the most common pitfalls and mistakes.
    Last edited by Maragato; 06-07-2011 at 12:43 PM.

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