IE9

This is a discussion on IE9 within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; I wanted to use it, I really did. I'm want to stop using Firefox (especially now that Mozilla announced the ...

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    IE9

    I wanted to use it, I really did. I'm want to stop using Firefox (especially now that Mozilla announced the intention of releasing 4 major versions every year), and Chrome isn't an option either. Unfortunately IE9 still didn't quite make it. Much better browsers no doubt. But still has weird standards/rendering choices that, for instance affect our forums here.

    On the other hand, the one and only add-on I don't dream of scrubbing is Adblock Plus. IE9 introduces Tracking Protection which is sort of meant to be able to replace it. It however purposely over-complicates the process of manually adding new items to its list of blocked addresses. You have to do it from a text editor. Can't do it from within the browser.

    These type of things simply just don't cut it, for me. I wished this was it and I was going to leave FF for good. But not yet. Still disappointed.

    Anyone else too?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
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    I don't see the point of IE9. And I don't see why Firefox is so bad, either. Why is it so bad?
    Also, this tracking protection has already existed in Firefox for I don't know how long.
    It seems that IE is still just trying to catch up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #3
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Forgive me, but I think the Do Not Track Me features coming in many browsers is in concordance with a new American law regulating tracking behavior by companies on the internet. I haven't really followed the story, so there isn't a specific bill I can name, but that's what I'm thinking. It's not really a replacement for ad blockers or no script or whatever else.

    EDIT: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/1...-privacy-bill/
    Last edited by whiteflags; 03-15-2011 at 04:49 PM.

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I stand corrected on the rationale behind Tracking Protection.

    This one annoys me particularly. I'm not sure if this is an IE9 issue or a vBulletin issue. But I cannot replicate it in any other browser:

    Name:  rendering.jpg
Views: 249
Size:  37.8 KB
    Last edited by Mario F.; 03-15-2011 at 04:58 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #5
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I stand corrected on the rationale behind Tracking Protection.

    This one annoys me particularly. I'm not sure if this is an IE9 issue or a vBulletin issue. But I cannot replicate it in any other browser:

    Name:  rendering.jpg
Views: 249
Size:  37.8 KB
    Too bad. So much for 9's superior rewritten-from-scratch layout engine.

  6. #6
    msh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I stand corrected on the rationale behind Tracking Protection.

    This one annoys me particularly. I'm not sure if this is an IE9 issue or a vBulletin issue. But I cannot replicate it in any other browser:

    Name:  rendering.jpg
Views: 249
Size:  37.8 KB
    I occasionally get a less severe version of that glitch in FF v3.6.
    Disclaimer: This post shows my ignorance at the time of its making. I claim ownership of but not responsibility for all errors in it. Reference at your own peril.

  7. #7
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    I've moved to chrome on all my platforms (*nix, Mac & Win) and I dont yet see a reason to change again

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    Quote Originally Posted by msh View Post
    I occasionally get a less severe version of that glitch in FF v3.6.
    FF4 is working pretty nicely now. Perhaps it's time to test the new version?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #9
    'Allo, 'Allo, Allo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    This one annoys me particularly. I'm not sure if this is an IE9 issue or a vBulletin issue. But I cannot replicate it in any other browser
    I don't have 9 but in 8 this is caused by the page being rendered in IE7 standards mode rather than IE8. If you open the developer tools and forcefully set it to IE8 standards mode, it renders correctly. I don't think you can manually set it to render as that by default, but the webmaster can do it automatically by adding the relevant emulation meta tag to the pages.

    Pictures:
    IE7 mode
    IE8 mode
    Last edited by adeyblue; 03-16-2011 at 04:42 PM.

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    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    I like both Firefox and Chrome.

    I primarily use Firefox because of the NoScript extension which I love. Apparently there is a new extension for Chrome which does the same thing (it's not made by the NoScript people but it has the same functionality), so I might try to use that sometime soon.

    Firefox 4 Beta 12 completely fixed all Firefox memory issues as far as I can tell. Ever since I upgraded to Beta 12, Firefox has been squeaky clean in terms of memory consumption.
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  11. #11
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adeyblue View Post
    I don't have 9 but in 8 this is caused by the page being rendered in IE7 standards mode rather than IE8. If you open the developer tools and forcefully set it to IE8 standards mode, it renders correctly.
    Yup. Just did. It works well in IE8 and IE9 standards modes. Thanks for the tip adeyblue. But this raises so many questions...

    This gives some sense to a discussion sometime ago that I was skimming through about IE rendering modes and how developers need some kind of feature matrix (?) to have any hope of knowing in what mode IE will render their page.

    But what the hell?... What's the point of these modes? Why doesn't IE just render the page in the latest and shiniest of modes? Or why at least it doesn't let the user set a rendering mode that sticks through different browser sessions? I'm totally confused at this feature and in fact a little scared by it: Is this some kind of "rendering hell" for web developers?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #12
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
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    Ah, you know, there's a story behind it.
    Long ago, Microsoft made a browser known as IE6. It was famous. And disastrous. It was very poorly standard compliant.
    Then came Firefox. It played very nice with standards. But since IE6 was still dominant, a lot of pages were still designed for IE6.
    And so it took Microsoft many years before making successors. But there was a problem. Pages didn't render correctly in the new versions because they were designed for IE6.
    So to fix that, Microsoft made a "quirk" mode that rendered the pages with an old engine by default.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #13
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    You can also remove Compatibility View at least partially by Tools -> Internet Options, click Advanced, find Browsing, and uncheck "Automatically recover from page layout errors with Compatibility View".

  14. #14
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    [...IE6 usual babble. aka, how IE6 is responsible for the earthquake in Japan...]

    So to fix that, Microsoft made a "quirk" mode that rendered the pages with an old engine by default.
    IE9 doesn't render in quirks mode by default. It apparently chooses a mode based on the content of the website.

    That it implements version-based mode, I actually find it a far better solution than the other browsers who only implement quirks mode and standards compliance mode. What I find absolute horrid however is apparently it makes choices on which mode to render based on code choices by the programmer that are rather innocuous. That is, if I decide to use the color tag, IE9 will immediately revert to an older mode and possibly render useless other features on the website because it will make no effort to support them in that mode.

    I cannot blame only IE for it. It's clearly a programming issue on the part of the web developer. But, for pete's sake, the world is full of bad web developers and bad tools for developing websites. And this IE behavior has an impact on users that is far worse than simply letting it go like all other browsers seem to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    You can also remove Compatibility View at least partially by Tools -> Internet Options, click Advanced, find Browsing, and uncheck "Automatically recover from page layout errors with Compatibility View".
    Thanks. I set that to off now (although had no impact on this particular case). Should probably help on others, I guess...
    Last edited by Mario F.; 03-16-2011 at 05:36 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #15
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    I haven't used IE in a long time, mainly because I prefer open source applications where I can get them. Isn't that the main reason to use FF? Or, at least one of them...

    I can vouch for FF definitely being the most feature rich of the two, but Chrome seems to be catching up. One advantage of Chrome is that they seem to have a philosophy of less bloat, something both IE and FF through out a long time ago.

    The problem with IE keeping with standards causing problems seems to fit in with a larger pattern. The computer industry as a whole need to decide when old stuff should just go away. I got most of my hatred for way-too-far-backwards compatibility from the very limited OS dev I did, but the same issue seems to rear its head all over.

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