Next level of retirement....

This is a discussion on Next level of retirement.... within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Mario F. Hmm... actually it will depend if the jars are closed or not. Well, unless you're ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Hmm... actually it will depend if the jars are closed or not.
    Well, unless you're planning to steal my few remaining marbles that is...


    Actually ... if I have 6 marbles, I also have 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 marbles... But I don't have 7.

    And then there's this... 13 x 7 = 28
    Last edited by CommonTater; 02-08-2011 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #17
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Well if the jars are closed we have one tough nut to crack. You see, there will be many, a few, one and no marbles on each jar. All at the same time. It's a mess, and you can see the problem if somehow these marbles represented your age...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Well if the jars are closed we have one tough nut to crack. You see, there will be many, a few, one and no marbles on each jar. All at the same time. It's a mess, and you can see the problem if somehow these marbles represented your age...
    LOL.... And this is helping me with win 7 exactly how?

    Seriously though, there does seem to be a constellation of problems with win7 in my "friendbase" and like a few of them, the thought of reverting... perhaps trying again with win8 ....

    It's reassuring to hear it's not a widespread problem... now all I gotta do is figure out what's behind it...

  4. #19
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Well, in all truth I am 20 ... but for the 40th time.

    ...And then there's this... 13 x 7 = 28
    Happy 600th birthday anyway!

    To be honest, I haven't tried windows 7 yet, but if you're into confirmation bias, you are not alone, reporting that windows 7 is corrupting things. Although, personally, I always eject my flash drives on the computer before pulling them out. That forces the drive to flush out everything I guess, so I would be interested to know if more people, besides me, do this also.

    It may still be a problem with windows 7, but that's just what comes to mind.

  5. #20
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    I could also imagine that some older hardware lacks proper driver support for windows 7. Sure windows 7 ships with alot of drivers but as i noticed on my older laptop that came with XP some things just would not work properly until a driver was installed, and my guess is that most companies can't really be bothered to test a driver for 3 years old hardware properly, so that might have something to do with it aswell maybe?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    Happy 600th birthday anyway!
    HEY!!! ... it's not til August...

    To be honest, I haven't tried windows 7 yet, but if you're into confirmation bias, you are not alone, reporting that windows 7 is corrupting things. Although, personally, I always eject my flash drives on the computer before pulling them out. That forces the drive to flush out everything I guess, so I would be interested to know if more people, besides me, do this also.
    Actually I garnered a significant improvement on Win7 by going into the Device manager and setting my external devices to "optimize for easy removal" (the default) and NOT using the ejector tool... Up to that point I was getting about 1 in 3 corrupted flash drives, now it's more like 1 in 50.

    There is a known USB issue on Win7 ... Corruption of flash drives is only one part of it. A couple of self-declared audiophiles (people with too much money and too big speakers) were able to demonstrate the *clearly audible* difference between Win7 and XP when using external DACs for their sound... A tone that sounds very pure on XP will "Warble" (vibrato effect) noticeably on Win7... even on quad core AMD setups... It would seem there's some timing issues there...

    Also I noticed that Win7 drops characters while I type... I'm fast, but hardly a fire starter... and I haven't outtyped a computer since the DOS days... but when I get on a roll with Win7 it loses about 1 in 100 characters.

    If you grab the DPC Latency tool you will discover that while XP typically runs 17 to 20 microseconds delay in processing Deferred Procedure Calls (kernel code) Win7 usually runs 200 to 300... and that's enough to make a huge difference in performance...

    I dunno... maybe it's a tempest in a teacup... but then, maybe not.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakti View Post
    I could also imagine that some older hardware lacks proper driver support for windows 7. Sure windows 7 ships with alot of drivers but as i noticed on my older laptop that came with XP some things just would not work properly until a driver was installed, and my guess is that most companies can't really be bothered to test a driver for 3 years old hardware properly, so that might have something to do with it aswell maybe?
    Yep, sure might... My PC is about 3 years old at this point... mid-range in the AMD 64X2 run... Stable as a rock and working so well I'll hate to get rid of it but yes, drivers could be an issue. I haven't gone direct to the manufacturer's sites yet. Maybe I should.
    Last edited by CommonTater; 02-08-2011 at 06:38 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    If you grab the DPC Latency tool you will discover that while XP typically runs 17 to 20 microseconds delay in processing Deferred Procedure Calls (kernel code) Win7 usually runs 200 to 300... and that's enough to make a huge difference in performance...
    Well, first and foremost Microsoft recommends (and makes it a part of their Logo program) that a DPC shouldn't run for longer than 100 microseconds. Second, it isn't really Windows (XP or 7) that is responsible for that. DPCs are executed by device drivers. What you have there instead is a typical example of a bad driver for Windows 7 vs a good driver for Windows XP. Blame the manufacturer once you find the source.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #24
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    EDIT: To clarify the context of this post: In response to your marble joke:

    Variation: How many months are 28 days long?

    75% of people will say "one."

    EDIT: Wow, this is progressing fast. I just read my email about a new post and posted here w/o looking to see if any new had been posted... apparently there has been.
    Last edited by User Name:; 02-08-2011 at 07:51 PM.

  10. #25
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I've did some preliminary test with that DPC latency tool.

    Here I'm playing an mp3 and streaming video at the same time. You'll be able to see the specs of this machine from the gadgets on the right. It's an old machine, like yours. More specifically an Intel Core2 Duo. The sound is coming from the onboard chip. The video from an ATI HD Radeon 4770.

    Name:  thumb.jpg
Views: 92
Size:  7.8 KB

    Not once I got anywhere close to 500 microseconds. But I do get above 100 microseconds often, which is something I should expect considering I'm doing something stupid. Still nowhere near what you are experiencing.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Well, first and foremost Microsoft recommends (and makes it a part of their Logo program) that a DPC shouldn't run for longer than 100 microseconds. Second, it isn't really Windows (XP or 7) that is responsible for that. DPCs are executed by device drivers. What you have there instead is a typical example of a bad driver for Windows 7 vs a good driver for Windows XP. Blame the manufacturer once you find the source.
    Actually, Mario, I'm not getting any spikes... never over 300, which is usually while I'm watching the news and doing backups at the same time... very IO intensive stuff.

    THIS machine doesn't have the audio and video problem. That's a whole different computer that also has no DPC spiking, just a consistently high delay... I never did figure that one out, I needed it working for a demo so it went back on XP real quick...

    Still there is an audible difference in sound between XP and 7... as I now have my main machine dual booting, I can hear it... The XP sound is clear, almost transparent on FLAC sources where the Win7 machine is "cloudy" (for lack of a better term). It's the same hardware so I have to write that off to drivers as both are running Media Player Classic.

    (If you're concluding that I'm all about AV, you're correct. I made my living at it for a long time)

    Oddly, now that I'm dual booting, this install of Win7 seems better behaved... my DAC is working on both (which it never did before) but I haven't had the chance to check the other stuff just yet... Still drops keyboard characters though...

    I dunno... An AMD 64x2 at 3ghz should do better than this... There's a noticeable difference in performance between 7 and XP... XP is clearly faster.

    It just fries my gonads that I spent $1200 on several copies of an OS I'm likely to relgate to the dustbin...
    Win7 Pro is $329.00 in my area...
    Last edited by CommonTater; 02-08-2011 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #27
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    I've installed Windows 7 on 3 computers and it has worked flawlessly.

    The only trouble I have had is on one computer which is about 8 years old. I had to search around for the correct drivers for its old video and sound cards, and even with the correct video card driver I get choppy HD video (understandable...it's old hardware), but other than that that computer works great.

    [edit]

    I also love how fast Windows 7 boots compared to XP....even XP right out of the box.

    [/edit]
    My Website

    "Circular logic is good because it is."

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
    I've installed Windows 7 on 3 computers and it has worked flawlessly.

    The only trouble I have had is on one computer which is about 8 years old. I had to search around for the correct drivers for its old video and sound cards, and even with the correct video card driver I get choppy HD video (understandable...it's old hardware), but other than that that computer works great.
    Yep, I see that a lot... A lot of people use "last generation" pcs for HTPC systems and often as not they run into problems with Win7... usually XP is the fix.

    I also love how fast Windows 7 boots compared to XP....even XP right out of the box.
    Ok.. dual boot, same machine... Win7... 48 seconds. Win XP... 27 seconds.

    See, that's what I don't get... I've put 7 in about 50 machines now (put XP back in 14 of them) and for some reason my results are wildly different than what is reported online... Now the logical first step in this is to blame myself: "What am I doing wrong". But amongst my little gang, others have done their own installs and some have purchased machines with Win7 installed at factory and they're experiencing the same issues... corrupt flash drives, DACs not working, crappy audio and video, keyboards dropping characters, etc. so I have a bit of a problem thinking this is my own fault...

    Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder how much my opinion is being skewed by variance between obvious Win7 fan sites and the reality of day to day operations... They say it's so wonderful, flawless... no critical thinking... But one simply does not produce a double layer DVD full of code without at least a few bugs creeping into the mix.
    Last edited by CommonTater; 02-09-2011 at 09:10 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTater View Post
    It just fries my gonads that I spent $1200 on several copies of an OS I'm likely to relgate to the dustbin...
    You need to get in on the beta programs, I haven't paid for a Microsoft OS in yonks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adeyblue View Post
    You need to get in on the beta programs, I haven't paid for a Microsoft OS in yonks.
    LOL... now I really didn't want to hear that!!!

    Sounds like something I should look into... Got any links... suggestions... etc.

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