Is Computer Science dead or very much alive?

This is a discussion on Is Computer Science dead or very much alive? within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; You were thinking of trying to eliminate the buses by changing the architecture. Yep. I've googled this a bit and ...

  1. #16
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    You were thinking of trying to eliminate the buses by changing the architecture.
    Yep. I've googled this a bit and found that most companies are trending towards eventually ditching good old Von-Nuemann but haven't really described its replacement in any concrete terms. I suppose it is because they do no want to reveal exactly what it is they are working on behind closed doors or it could be because it is all theoretical at this point in time.

  2. #17
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    While changing architecture would be a good idea at some point, I find it silly to do it to avoid the bus problems.
    In any architecture, you need some type of buses. So it seems you're just minimizing the amount of buses, which seems like a workaround.
    But then again, buses such as those within cpus and such as pretty fast, so I dunno... not experienced enough to say why those external buses are so slow and if changing architecture would help that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #18
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    But then again, buses such as those within cpus and such as pretty fast, so I dunno... not experienced enough to say why those external buses are so slow and if changing architecture would help that.
    Hehe. Ditto that. I'm only discussing what I have read and not in any way claiming I understand even 50% of it. The articles get pretty technical. I figure as long as they tell us how to program on whatever it is they come up with I'll stick to that part and they can stick to the manufacture and design of them.

  4. #19
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    Meh. That's not going to do. I'm going to design these things in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    not experienced enough to say why those external buses are so slow and if changing architecture would help that.
    There are better architectures than current... But it's not the core of it that's the problem it's the way it has to be layed out so people can access it... The big problem right now is "capacity"... not the max boards or max-ram type... electronic capacity, little capacitors that exist between agacent leads on the circuit boards. Above a certain speed, there is enough capacitance there to cause signal errors... the longer the leads the bigger the problem. Having them running above ground planes only makes it worse... Above about 500mhz, even a few picofarads of inter-element capacity becomes a real issue...

    So to make them faster they need to make them smaller... but if they make them smaller, we won't be able to install and remove options on cards as we do now...

  6. #21
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    wth...!! I thought no one replied to this..
    most of the issues discussed here seems to be about hardware.
    Buses, architecture and that.
    But Bubba, what are the thousand evidences that it isn't dead?
    In Dice, what I keep reading is constant moaning, and also it appears that programmers shoot themselves in the foot by making programming languages that does everything for them..and I ask the question, what if someone is really successful in that area of research?
    Em, the likes of Visual Basic is really scaring me haha, especially what someone said.."all you have to do is drag a few buttons!"

    When I was applying for this major, I was warned about it..but I chose it anyways because I didn't want to do anything else...just hope it is worth it
    You ended that sentence with a preposition...Bastard!

  7. #22
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    Computer Science isnt dead and pretty much never will be. There will be a need for programmers to just maintain alot of the software used today, and new needs will still require somebody to deliver a product.

    And CommonTater is correct, every cable (or in the case of motherboard and such: every path) has a small capacitance that increases with length. This becomes a huge problem when frequencies goes up and is a big part of the problem. This isn't such an issue within a CPU core because distances are very very small but even the distance betwean the RAM and the CPU becomes a problem at high frequencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eman View Post
    This is a rather touchy subject, especially for those in the US I presume, but I was wondering how is it going in Europe and is the degree still worth it?

    In the US: it's alive and kicking...

    It's not clear what has you so depressed but a quick look at monster.com
    reveals this.

    Software Engineering Intern Job in Glendale , California US

    and many pages of jobs for programmers.

  9. #24
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    Pronouncing Computer Science is dead is like saying maths is dead...

    Seriously, it's alive and kicking -- but I've noticed a lot of people undertake CS degrees without realizing they're closer to mathematics than anything (I'm talking about real CS degrees).

    If you want to "engineer" software, then Software Engineering is the go -- in Australia there is a big shortage of Software Engineers (again, I'm talking about real Software Engineers).

  10. #25
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    @kona I am not depressed! But then again I paid a lot of money just for a piece of paper anyone can easily have nowadays.

    What do you mean "real" CS degrees.. Unless you're doing games or cryptology then Maths is relevant.

    I will post a link on this subject in a mo.
    EDIT:

    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastr...-Science-Dead/

    the argument between hoapres and Sysfall is really funny. lol
    http://community.dice.com/t5/Salary-.../158702/page/7

    but yeah, there're loads of threads on this
    Last edited by Eman; 01-16-2011 at 06:33 PM.
    You ended that sentence with a preposition...Bastard!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eman View Post
    In Dice, what I keep reading is constant moaning, and also it appears that programmers shoot themselves in the foot by making programming languages that does everything for them..
    Not really. A programming language alone does not make things easier or difficult. Given an equal level of expertise, two different programmers will find their respective programming languages equally challenging. It's our programming paradigms that define how easily can we solve a problem. Ours are yet not adequately descriptive of the real world. Any programming language is a slave to these paradigms... and we haven't been creating new ones (that are more than a simple curiosity) for a few decades...

    We seem to lack the ability to create a programming paradigm (or a combination of paradigms) that create better abstractions and better interfaces the real world with the computing world. And this difficulty is probably also tied to our computer architectures. Certain proposed models would probably require a rethinking of how we organize and store information, but also how we process it, in order to be of any use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eman View Post
    Em, the likes of Visual Basic is really scaring me haha, especially what someone said.."all you have to do is drag a few buttons!"
    The purpose is always to make programming easier, faster and more accessible. Any step in that direction is considered a victory. It's because of this that is quite entertaining to see languages being criticized only on the fact they are easy to use, when in fact it's difficult-to-use languages that are a step backwards.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #27
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    he purpose is always to make programming easier, faster and more accessible. Any step in that direction is considered a victory. It's because of this that is quite entertaining to see languages being criticized only on the fact they are easy to use, when in fact it's difficult-to-use languages that are a step backwards.
    yeah I see what you are saying, but the easier it gets the more it becomes just an "hobby", which I am sure it is one or the other for most of us on this board.
    But it would be an hobby for almost anyone.

    Maybe it is just me, but I find stuff like Dreamweaver, Joomla and the likes very annoying.
    You ended that sentence with a preposition...Bastard!

  13. #28
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eman View Post
    What do you mean "real" CS degrees.. Unless you're doing games or cryptology then Maths is relevant.
    Real meaning good, not from somewhere where they give you a CS degree after 1 year of doing Visual Basic.

    Maths is always relevant in CS, especially for games and cryptography/cryptology. It's amazing the number of people I see who "want to program games", you ask if they like maths -- "not at all" is often the answer.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacs7 View Post
    Real meaning good, not from somewhere where they give you a CS degree after 1 year of doing Visual Basic.

    Maths is always relevant in CS, especially for games and cryptography/cryptology. It's amazing the number of people I see who "want to program games", you ask if they like maths -- "not at all" is often the answer.
    Ah yeah. I agree.
    unfortunately I have to program games because of a school project. I can't wait for 3rd year to choose a different stream, the maths is beyond me, haha.
    I am thinking Software Development would be what I would choose, but I am doubt if it would be interesting as games programming (i know, weird contradiction).
    You ended that sentence with a preposition...Bastard!

  15. #30
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    It's paying off for me quite well
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