View Poll Results: Do you use the Dvorak?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • What's that?

    2 10.53%
  • No.

    16 84.21%
  • No, but I'd like to learn.

    1 5.26%
  • A little, but I primarily use the QWERTY.

    0 0%
  • Yes, but I still use the QWERTY on occasion/at work.

    0 0%
  • Yes, I can't even use the QWERTY smoothly anymore.

    0 0%

Dvorak

This is a discussion on Dvorak within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; I'm really curious to see how many people here are Dvorak users. (I'll be surprised if anyone says #4 )...

  1. #1
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,532

    Dvorak

    I'm really curious to see how many people here are Dvorak users.

    (I'll be surprised if anyone says #4 )
    Last edited by Yarin; 09-17-2010 at 12:25 PM.
    A class that doesn't overload all operators just isn't finished yet. -- SmugCeePlusPlusWeenie
    A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God. -- Alan J. Perlis

  2. #2
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Out of scope
    Posts
    4,062
    I'm under the impression that the time saved from using a Dvorak keyboard at home would be offset by the amount of time I'd need to waste shopping around and ultimately applying those dumb little stickies to my keyboards. If there were more good keyboards being designed around the Dvorak layout that I could just go out and buy and be done with it, I'd consider the change. I just don't like the idea of having to reapply my own layout over a QWERTY layout every time I switch keyboards (which is quite frequent).
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 09-17-2010 at 02:27 PM.
    Sent from my iPad®

  3. #3
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7,158
    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    I'm under the impression that the time saved from using a Dvorak keyboard at home would be offset by the amount of time I'd need to waste shopping around and ultimately applying those dumb little stickies to my keyboards. If there were more good keyboards being designed around the Dvorak layout that I could just go out and buy and be done with it, I'd consider the change. I just don't like the idea of having to reapply my own layout over a QWERTY layout every time I switch keyboards (which is quite frequent).
    My brother spent an afternoon physically popping the keys off his keyboard and putting them in their new locations.

    Just to ........ people off, he made a few keys different from true Dvorak, just to put a damper on the egos of other Dvorak users when they sat down at his terminal. "Oh, you use Dvorak too? I bet I can type faster than you. Hey... Uh... wait a minute."
    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

  4. #4
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Out of scope
    Posts
    4,062
    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    My brother spent an afternoon physically popping the keys off his keyboard and putting them in their new locations.

    Just to ........ people off, he made a few keys different from true Dvorak, just to put a damper on the egos of other Dvorak users when they sat down at his terminal. "Oh, you use Dvorak too? I bet I can type faster than you. Hey... Uh... wait a minute."
    Yeah, I'd definitely prefer transparent stickies to physically adjusting the keyboard. In fact, the only way I would purchase a keyboard with the Dvorak layout would be if it also included the QWERTY equivalent on every key. I don't like the idea of having a keyboard that any one of my friends and family would feel uncomfortable using should they need to. For me it'd have to be a Dvorak/QWERTY keyboard with a simple toggle between the two either on the keyboard itself or in some sort of tray in the operating system.
    Sent from my iPad®

  5. #5
    Frequently Quite Prolix dwks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,045
    I know several people who don't bother changing the physical keyboard. They just touch-type on a qwerty keyboard in a dvorak or a Hebrew keyboard layout. KDE has it set up very nicely; you can have an icon in your systray which you click once on to toggle layouts. I have it down there but I don't know how to use a dvorak keyboard at all. I type pretty fast as it is on a qwerty keyboard, and I like being able to use public computers/other peoples' laptops/etc without switching my brain between layouts.
    dwk

    Seek and ye shall find. quaere et invenies.

    "Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it." -- Alan Perlis
    "Testing can only prove the presence of bugs, not their absence." -- Edsger Dijkstra
    "The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing." -- John Powell


    Other boards: DaniWeb, TPS
    Unofficial Wiki FAQ: cpwiki.sf.net

    My website: http://dwks.theprogrammingsite.com/
    Projects: codeform, xuni, atlantis, nort, etc.

  6. #6
    Just a pushpin. bernt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    426
    I'm under the impression that the time saved from using a Dvorak keyboard at home would be offset by the amount of time I'd need to waste shopping around and ultimately applying those dumb little stickies to my keyboards.
    Yeah, that and having to remap keys on all my video games (Googles dvorak layout) ,AOE to move? That doesn't have the same ring as WASD. On the other hand, having a dvorak keyboard would make "QWERTYUIOP" a slightly better password .
    Consider this post signed

  7. #7
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    My brother spent an afternoon physically popping the keys off his keyboard and putting them in their new locations.

    Just to ........ people off, he made a few keys different from true Dvorak, just to put a damper on the egos of other Dvorak users when they sat down at his terminal. "Oh, you use Dvorak too? I bet I can type faster than you. Hey... Uh... wait a minute."
    That's what I did. And as far as those little stickies... because I now know it, I (like dwks was saying) can even just change the layout on the OS (when on a system that's not mine) and continue using the same QWERTY keyboard, without too much trouble, then just change it back when I'm done (or not ). So really, the lack of cheap Dvorak keyboards shouldn't be a problem.

    Wouldn't he have had to compensate for the difference keys on the OS too? Seems like a lot of work for the fun, and alot more confusion when you go to use the real thing.

  8. #8
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by bernt View Post
    Yeah, that and having to remap keys on all my video games (Googles dvorak layout) ,AOE to move? That doesn't have the same ring as WASD. On the other hand, having a dvorak keyboard would make "QWERTYUIOP" a slightly better password .
    Indeed. I like, though, how you can configure a quick shortcut to toggle between layouts (in KDE & Windows). So little time is wasted there. (just have to switch over in your head what chatting or something)

    And it makes the otherwise senseless password "PYFGCRL", "easy".
    Last edited by Yarin; 09-17-2010 at 06:09 PM.

  9. #9
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,383
    What we really need is keyboards with LED-like keys that remap the whole layout from a preferences screen, without the need for key flipping or stickies. Users of international keyboards would be especially grateful. There's also this, but I couldn't possibly bear to use it: Laser-projected keyboard image - Photos: Kaiser's high-tech health care - CNET News

    As for Dvorak...

    I used it indeed. For just short of a couple of years. Inexplicably, after actually getting used to it, I put it aside. Have been stashed away since the beginning of this year.

    I bought a simplified Dvorak for the geek factor, because I believed in the hype for speed and accuracy of typing and because it indeed solved one of the banes of most QWERTY layouts; bad access to many of the symbols associated with programming -- an area where I do believe the Dvorak layout excels. However, because I'm not a touch typist, I never actually benefited from the advertised increase in speed or accuracy.

    I was however happy to confirm that indeed learning a vastly different keyboard layout is possible in a relatively short time, without sacrificing your muscle-memory of your older layout. One really just needs to hang on for the initial impact and get over it. It is also somewhat easy to imprint the new keyboard layout in your memory, meaning I'm very confident that today, 9 months later (take it or leave it) I could go fetch the dvorak and type in it as easily as I'm typing this on a qwerty. But I suspect there should be a short limit to the number of layouts we are capable of assimilating.

    Incidentally, keyboard layouts is one area that always instills some curiosity on me, for some reason. I just like it, despite agreeing that this is (except for the very best touch-typists among us) a largely useless area of interest. One layout that I'm growing a keen interest on is Neo. There's very nice things I hear about it occasionally. And the principles behind this type of keyboard seem a lot more sound than just the swapping of keys of every other layout (this one you can't use stickies).
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #10
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Out of scope
    Posts
    4,062
    Quote Originally Posted by dwks View Post
    I know several people who don't bother changing the physical keyboard. They just touch-type on a qwerty keyboard in a dvorak or a Hebrew keyboard layout. KDE has it set up very nicely; you can have an icon in your systray which you click once on to toggle layouts. I have it down there but I don't know how to use a dvorak keyboard at all. I type pretty fast as it is on a qwerty keyboard, and I like being able to use public computers/other peoples' laptops/etc without switching my brain between layouts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarin View Post
    That's what I did. And as far as those little stickies... because I now know it, I (like dwks was saying) can even just change the layout on the OS (when on a system that's not mine) and continue using the same QWERTY keyboard, without too much trouble, then just change it back when I'm done (or not ). So really, the lack of cheap Dvorak keyboards shouldn't be a problem.

    Wouldn't he have had to compensate for the difference keys on the OS too? Seems like a lot of work for the fun, and alot more confusion when you go to use the real thing.
    I can touchtype drunk with my eyes closed and a tight noose around my neck... but that's with a QWERTY keyboard... I don't suppose you learned Dvorak through touch typing. So I have no intention to... the entire reason that Dvorak didn't take over was because large industry didn't feel it cost effective to retrain all of their typists. It's time consuming and, at the end of the day, not worth the effort. Brewbuck outlined the perfect example of a Dvorak user in his description of his brother... it's just a bunch of people attempting to create an image of elitism amongst their peers. Dvorak keyboard users are the Hummer owners of the computer world.
    Sent from my iPad®

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    I feel that the biggest gain for Dvorak is for touch typing, and then mainly from an ergonomic standpoint. To me a layout based on frequency of use makes alot of sense. I also like the separation of vowel and consonants but for programming I find the US qwerty better.

    I made some attempt to learn it a while back but the fact that all other keyboards use qwerty made me reconsider. That and the fact that you are painfully slow in the beginning.
    Last edited by Subsonics; 09-17-2010 at 07:50 PM.

  12. #12
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    I can touchtype drunk with my eyes closed and a tight noose around my neck... but that's with a QWERTY keyboard... I don't suppose you learned Dvorak through touch typing. So I have no intention to... the entire reason that Dvorak didn't take over was because large industry didn't feel it cost effective to retrain all of their typists. It's time consuming and, at the end of the day, not worth the effort. Brewbuck outlined the perfect example of a Dvorak user in his description of his brother... it's just a bunch of people attempting to create an image of elitism amongst their peers. Dvorak keyboard users are the Hummer owners of the computer world.
    Sure, it's difficult to start learning that way. My solution was to rearrange the keys out on a $5 KB - not too painful there.
    And I fully understand why it's not more popular.
    As far as the elitism though... I started cause I saw an article on it, found it interesting, and realized that, hey, I'm young, I'm sure I'll do a lot more typing within my remaining life. Why learn this? Sure, it'd be hard at first, but the logic behind the layout convinced me that it'd be worth it. And so far, I think it has. But I'm by no means an elitist though, I don't see myself moving on to being the KeyB0ard G0d, or even a faster typist (though possibly a little bit in the future, nothing significant), the only reason I prefer it is because it's more comfortable.
    Kind of like, not all Linux users, are elitists.

  13. #13
    Just a pushpin. bernt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    426
    What we really need is keyboards with LED-like keys that remap the whole layout from a preferences screen, without the need for key flipping or stickies.
    You mean this. Except it costs a small fortune and I can't seem to understand why.
    Consider this post signed

  14. #14
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,797
    I can't seem to understand why.
    2500 / 113 = 22

    I don't know. $22 for each key doesn't seem so bad.

    Soma

  15. #15
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,383
    Quote Originally Posted by bernt View Post
    You mean this. Except it costs a small fortune and I can't seem to understand why.
    Wow! Precisely like that. But that price... uuf!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Dvorak
    By Wraithan in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-11-2008, 09:04 AM
  2. Does anyone use Dvorak?
    By XSquared in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-24-2004, 01:57 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21