The end of Google

This is a discussion on The end of Google within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Catchy title, isn't it? I think so. It has that je ne sais quoi that inspires all sorts of emotional ...

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    The end of Google

    Catchy title, isn't it? I think so. It has that je ne sais quoi that inspires all sorts of emotional responses. You know, the type of emotional responses whe should reserve for more important worldly matters, but we don't.

    Anyways, Google is well and recommended, of course. It's just that this is the end of Google for me. Last night they removed the /ncr page and now I'm forced into all this feature-rich interactive nonsense I didn't ask, I didn't want and I never will, from a web search engine.

    I've been weighting all privacy concerns too for a long time already. Google ToS across all their offerings are patently clear in that I have none (as far as Google is concerned. It does protect my privacy from third parties though. Or at least it says it does). The only reason I put up with all this misery for so long, is because there's really no other credible alternative to google out there. But I hadenough.

    So between not being able to turn down features I don't want and terms of service I don't agree with, I do what is in my power to do; I cheat from a company that I feel is cheating me:

    - I'm keeping my gmail account because it serves its greater purpose of fooling spam away from my pop accounts. It was always its only purpose.

    - I'm adopting Scroogle for at least as long as it can survive Google constant attempts to stop 3rd-party wrappers around its search engine. After that I will probably move back to Dogpile (been in and out of it before. But wasn't then so motivated as I am now to give Google the finger).

    - I never used any of the remaining Google services, never found a need for them, and never will. So I'm fine there.

    - Eventually, I'll stop using Google altogether when alternatives start to show up. The years have told me this is just the beginning of the end. As the number of people complaining about Google keeps increasing and the company distances itself more and more from the early promise, in line with the maxim "nothing lives forever", Google is actually paving the road for alternatives. Much like Altavista and Yahoo inequities eventually paved the way for Google.

    And this is my manifesto. Done on a programming forum, of all places.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 09-09-2010 at 06:06 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    Cat
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    The worst thing Google has ever done IMO is Google Health. Yes, Google wants access to your healthcare records -- for the purposes of generating ads tailored to your medical conditions. That's pretty sleazy in my opinion.

    You have to dig DEEP through those click-through agreements but you'll find that you're stating that you understand that Google is not compliant with HIPAA regulations regarding medical privacy and you consent to voluntarily give them the data anyway.
    You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear on a pink ball alone can take the head clean off a 90 pound midget at 300 yards.

  3. #3
    Registered User jdragyn's Avatar
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    I'm surprised Google hasn't tried making a browser plug-in that will block its own ads if you pay them for the "service".
    C+/- programmer extraordinaire

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    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    I must admit the only reason I use gmail is because it's flawless about delivering my mail. Having used their competitors, I'll always be expecting some piece of mail that never comes, and it isn't my fault. Gmail is the one thing I care about from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    And this is my manifesto. Done on a programming forum, of all places.
    I hope you find the password to your blog!

  5. #5
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    I hope you find the password to your blog!
    LOL! Point taken
    I'm a bit lazy about it. But yeah, it will find its way there, where it should be.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #6
    In my head happyclown's Avatar
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    Do what I do, turn javascript off in your browser, and you won't have any problems.
    OS: Linux Mint 13(Maya) LTS 64 bit.

  7. #7
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Gmail has been my favorite mail service for quite some time. I think it far exceeds any other online mail service or desktop mail application I've ever used.
    My Website

    "Circular logic is good because it is."

  8. #8
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Every company monitors your usage of their site. It's web business 101. Whether they admit doing it or not is a different thing. I'm glad Google does though.

    On a Google search page I see:
    1) Menu bar on the top, which I use to alternate between text search/image search/translator/Gmail. Also has login/logout/account settings links which are useful.
    2) Google logo.
    3) Search box that gives suggestions which are sometimes helpful.
    4) Virtual keyboard button. Might be useful for many different reasons. I've used it for example for searching some words in Russian.
    5) A line below the search box which tells the amount of results. Useful. Also the advanced search link, which I use sometimes.
    6) Sidebar on the left, which has quicklinks for most common advanced searches.
    7) Search results, featuring link/title, description, address, quicklinks, cached link, translate link. All useful stuff. Content sometimes also includes a few most popular videos/pictures.
    8) Related searches. Interesting to read, might be useful in some cases, in order to refine your search.
    9) Page links! (Just pointing it out because Mario F.'s beloved Scroogle doesn't even have these).
    10) Extra search bar on the bottom and some common links.

    Everything looks clean and is totally okay and uses little bandwidth. And what does the "no country redirect" thing have to do with anything?

    </antirant>
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  9. #9
    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    the issues i have with gewwwwggle are

    * they do stuff and do not ask.

    *addz on every website i visited after they .... messed up browser <altered> to do so.

    *tracking cookies .... altered netscaps cookies in to tracking cookies <doubleclick>

    *keep personal info <yes they can get esnail addr from your computer and match it to your cookies while you are online or run search>

    *pay per click is scam. your site or page never <or rarely> reaches top.

    *map requires blabber script on.

    *do not allow proxxy.

    *do not allow search botz. <automated searches for research projects etc. >

    *omitt items from search with out asking even when "no filter" is checked. "run search agin with omitted items ?" but never or rarely add omitted items.

    *other countries .... same results are returned. are they even the other countries ?

    example Google ==> ip 74.125.157.132
    IP Information - 74.125.157.132
    IP address: 74.125.157.132
    Reverse DNS: gy-in-f132.1e100.net.
    Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified]
    ASN: 15169
    ASN Name: GOOGLE
    IP range connectivity: 0
    Registrar (per ASN): ARIN
    Country (per IP registrar): US [United States]
    Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars]
    Country IP Range: 74.124.0.0 to 74.125.255.255
    Country fraud profile: Normal
    City (per outside source): IP Information - 74.125.157.132
    IP address: 74.125.157.132
    Reverse DNS: gy-in-f132.1e100.net.
    Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified]
    ASN: 15169
    ASN Name: GOOGLE
    IP range connectivity: 0
    Registrar (per ASN): ARIN
    Country (per IP registrar): US [United States]
    Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars]
    Country IP Range: 74.124.0.0 to 74.125.255.255
    Country fraud profile: Normal
    City (per outside source): Mountain View, California
    Country (per outside source): US [United States]
    Private (internal) IP? No
    IP address registrar: whois.arin.net
    Known Proxy? No
    Link for WHOIS: 74.125.157.132
    Country (per outside source): US [United States]
    Private (internal) IP? No
    IP address registrar: whois.arin.net
    Known Proxy? No
    Link for WHOIS: 74.125.157.132
    server is in Mountain View California and of the two pages returned for a search on "cat" only three of twenty six results were of the .jp and none of them even had a picture of a cat! some drawing sure but no actual pictures of a cat! <and yes i did use the japanese word for cat> too.

    *images are altered or removed even when "no filter" is checked.

    *acquisition of other companies products .... some are shelffed never to be seen again.

    *some searches do not even <images> show what was requested in any of several pages.

    *youtube went down since taken over by gewwwwggle. forced player upgrade. no jabber script == no play. <see above when javascript is on>

    *video also required jibble script to work. then they did it to gewtube.

    *code does not usually say what compiler it will compile with or what libs needed.

    in initial result returns and on the page of "code" it might say lang.

    *no filter for eshopping sites removal. ie if you want only tech info sometimes you get all eshopping sites ie type in electronics and all home appliances show up instead of schematics etc.

    *only recently added https to searches.

    *no https for images search

    meowie. yes there are some nice featchers like the world news and lang tranz etc but privacy is a huge concern an so is censorship. it is an objection.

  10. #10
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    *addz on every website i visited after they .... messed up browser <altered> to do so.

    *tracking cookies .... altered netscaps cookies in to tracking cookies <doubleclick>
    Use NoScript.

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    *other countries .... same results are returned. are they even the other countries ?
    You sure? I'm pretty sure I get different results depending on my location.

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    *acquisition of other companies products .... some are shelffed never to be seen again.
    Some acquisitions are not made in order to continue a product, but rather to squelch a competitor.

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    *youtube went down since taken over by gewwwwggle. forced player upgrade. no jabber script == no play. <see above when javascript is on>
    Do you think YouTube would even still be around if Google hadn't taken it over? It had no way to make money and was in the red. Google has brought it into the green (granted it took them several years to do it). If Google hadn't taken over YouTube, I estimate they were on the road to going out of business....despite their immense popularity.

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    *code does not usually say what compiler it will compile with or what libs needed.
    What code? What does this have to do with Google?

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    *no https for images search
    Are you that afraid of your image searches getting tracked? If you don't want people to see what you're searching for, then stop looking at porn. Simple searching shouldn't require https. Email does necessitate it.
    My Website

    "Circular logic is good because it is."

  11. #11
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    *raises hand*

    I still like Google. They make plenty of great products and their ads don't feel nearly as intrusive as competitor ads. They do a much better job listening to their customers than many other businesses of their size and they do a good job finding a line between keeping their customers in the loop and protecting their own interests (which is necessary to keep their business thriving).

    Granted, they've had a share of sleazy ideas and schemes, but no more than other similar companies and ultimately I've found that they'll reduce the sleaze as much as possible if they feel it's losing them customers.
    Sent from my iPad®

  12. #12
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    I like Google. If you're complaining, then you haven't seen what or how the competitors work. Just look at Yahoo's ads for instance.

    kryptkat, your complaint seems to be a generic one against large business. Nothing Google does uniquely.

  13. #13
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacs7 View Post
    I like Google. If you're complaining, then you haven't seen what or how the competitors work. Just look at Yahoo's ads for instance
    Hmm... this would be a strange world indeed if the only reason to complain was that someone was doing better. We'd probably still be waiting for free thinking.

    Anyways, this all really stems from the fact I do believe web searching should have been developed right from the beginning as community driven project that should have originated a non-profit organization. The opportunity was lost very early on and this essential (I would say, crucial) sector of the internet is today entirely private and commercially controlled.

    So I'm biased at a very deep level. I'll openly admit that. But the company itself is certainly a target for strong criticism in many of its activities and the relationship it wants to have with its customers. I couldn't care any less for the quality of their services, or the quality of their support. You don't see me criticizing those. You see me criticizing that which I feel is wrong. Unfortunately, for Google, these are things dear to me. Which results in my decision.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 09-13-2010 at 06:22 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Anyways, this all really stems from the fact I do believe web searching should have been developed right from the beginning as community driven project that should have originated a non-profit organization. The opportunity was lost very early on and this essential (I would say, crucial) sector of the internet is today entirely private and commercially controlled.
    Hm, that got me thinking. Wouldn't that still be possible? Perhaps the resources required to make something as good as, or better than google is just out of reach? Some kind of open source search engine project. I believe that the google search engine has been and continue to be refined and worked on based on the huge amount of data at their disposal. There was an interesting Wired article about it some time ago. Even though I'm not sure what I would prefer in the case of privacy, everything centralized like in a private search engine, vs distributed and somewhat out of control.
    Last edited by Subsonics; 09-14-2010 at 09:04 AM.

  15. #15
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    Hm, that got me thinking. Wouldn't that still be possible? Perhaps the resources required to make something as good as, or better than google is just out of reach?
    I think that's the difficulty. These things tend to exist by building on existing resources, not by creating something entirely from scratch. If you look at Google history, you'll get pretty much the sense of that. When it started serving web searches, the net was not what it is today. Google could get away with their garage business and a 6 figure private backing. Through the years it kept on adding to their existing infrastructure and into the mammoth it is today.

    Today, any newcomer will be facing a much larger web and nightmarish logistics just to keep their web search engine from falling apart. It's not by accident or lack of skill that Cuil failed. Despite being a far superior engine to Google, the hardware available cannot handle the World Wide Web of the 21st century (both the spider and the capacity to handle the requests). Even with the 30 million financial backing it got.

    Back in the early 90s, when everything was seminal and internet organizations were being created left right and center, the opportunity to guarantee web indexing and searching would stay in the hands of non-profit organizations was very real. With financial backing from private companies and institutions (the exact same principles behind all internet organizations in existence today), this organization could grow and eventually handle even more hardware than Google does today. Why it never happened, I honestly don't know. I think Google arrived right in the right time, when it was very clear to everyone involved Altavista and Yahoo were not the solution. So successful was Google engine that it stole the opportunity.

    Some kind of open source search engine project.
    With limitations. The importance of keeping the page sorting algorithm secure could not be overstated.

    Even though I'm not sure what I would prefer in the case of privacy, everything centralized like in a private search engine, vs distributed and somewhat out of control.
    I think people often confuse their privacy issues with what should indeed be in the realm of the service provider, like Kryptkat above complaining about lack of https image search.

    I have absolutely no privacy concerns with google lack of encrypted connections in the search engine. That's not really Google's responsibility. They can chose to offer or not the service, but by no means that indicates a breach of privacy. Or else we must accuse CBoard from not offering https connections too, every time we browse or search the forums. Instead, my privacy concerns have to do with the treatment Google does to my searches and activity and its ability to decide to store and analyze that data as they see fit and act on that knowledge. This extends to all Google services. Web Searching, GMail, Google Docs, etc.

    I'd more easily trust that information to my government (and I wouldn't!) than I would to a private company. Especially one not obliged to my country's laws and regulations.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 09-14-2010 at 03:23 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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