The end of Google

This is a discussion on The end of Google within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Mario F. I think people often confuse their privacy issues with what should indeed be in the ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I think people often confuse their privacy issues with what should indeed be in the realm of the service provider, like Kryptkat above complaining about lack of https image search.

    I have absolutely no privacy concerns with google lack of encrypted connections in the search engine. That's not really Google's responsibility. They can chose to offer or not the service, but by no means that indicates a breach of privacy. Or else we must accuse CBoard from not offering https connections too, every time we browse or search the forums. Instead, my privacy concerns have to do with the treatment Google does to my searches and activity and its ability to decide to store and analyze that data as they see fit and act on that knowledge. This extends to all Google services. Web Searching, GMail, Google Docs, etc.

    I'd more easily trust that information to my government (and I wouldn't!) than I would to a private company. Especially one not obliged to my country's laws and regulations.
    It was a bit unclear what I meant I think when reading it back now. With private search engine, I meant privately owned, as with google, yahoo etc. The idea was that at least all information is under the control of one entity, that can be held responsible in case something should go wrong at some point. If the information would be spread among a multitude of volunteer non profit organizations this would be harder to keep track of. Regarding https, google already offers this, it's just to add an 's' to the address, although it's still in beta.

  2. #17
    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    If you don't want people to see what you're searching for, then stop looking at porn.
    <squeelz> doh.

    there are other reasons to use https for images. there are other reasons to use https for the other features like the new book <which they pinched from amazon or redirected you to amazon dot com> search. mearcatingly just using https on images does not hide images from someone or someones that may be in the room with you.

    What code? What does this have to do with Google?
    'h'+'t'+'t'+'p'+'colon'+'slash'+'slash'+'w'+'w'+'w '+'dot'+'c'+'o'+'d'+'e'+'dot'+'g'+'o'+'o'+'g'+'l'+ 'e'+'dot'+'c'+'o'+'m'

    Use NoScript.
    where do you download noscript from ?

    when i discovered what they were doing a long time ago i stopped using javascript. started looking in to the security of javascript. turned it off disabled it. most websites post a error or some message "to get the full features of this site you need to turn javascript on" .... they do not make a noscript page <most sites>. or youtubes "demand" .... "you must upgrade your browser" when you have the script off. inconvenient sure. secure sure. looking at the script and seeing the "mailto:" used i wondered if it automatically emailed the site via script. also set "block all cookies"

    Some acquisitions are not made in order to continue a product, but rather to squelch a competitor.
    exactly. and yet these business types say "competition is good for business".

    kryptkat, your complaint seems to be a generic one against large business. Nothing Google does uniquely.
    what other business do not allow you to use proxxys and research botz ?

    web searching should have been developed right from the beginning
    agreed. there should have been a list of websites accessible when ip was created. <not dns>
    you pull up the page and all the website locations list comes up. with no sites content controlled or banned or parked. unlike dns where you have to proved a name to fetch a new service to proved a list to choose from as well as scan for.

    can cat cora quickly cook creamy culinary quizine ?

  3. #18
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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  4. #19
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Cant believe you didn't just tell him to google it!

  5. #20
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
    Cant believe you didn't just tell him to google it!
    Sorry.

    where do you download noscript from ?
    Google it.
    My Website

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  6. #21
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    agreed. there should have been a list of websites accessible when ip was created. <not dns>
    Aren't you talking about web directories?
    Google Directory
    Yahoo! Directory

    An exhaustive list would be big and annoying and constantly updated, but you can find what you need if that is the format you prefer.

  7. #22
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    Aren't you talking about web directories?
    Oh man, I remember when both I and the Internet were young, I would use those style of web directories all the time. That brings back some memories.
    My Website

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  8. #23
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    They are still important. Particularly the Open Directory Project. Google and other search engines crawl these for new submissions and give them priority (on first crawl only). It also affects Google's PageRank.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #24
    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    was thinking more like a dialog box with a combo list box and buttons.

    buttons that are a to z and 0 to 9. when pressed the combo list box would contain the web sites that begin with that letter or number. other buttons that would have category names and when pressed the combo list box would contain web sites with that category. check boxes that would allow you to turn on and off the web sites description. the description would open in another dialog box like the standard search engine. a check box for selecting open in a new window or tab.

    the combo list box would allow you to scroll through all the sites and you could select one or more. if more were selected then they would each open in a new window or tab. if multiple web sites were selected in the combo list box then all of them that were selected would open. each in its own window or tab taking full advantage of broadband.

    an edit box at the bottom that would allow for a standard search and open a new page in a new window or tab.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    With limitations. The importance of keeping the page sorting algorithm secure could not be overstated.
    not sure why you'd want to open-source the whole project *except* the sorting algorithm. that's counter-intuitive to an open-source project. it's true that other entities could copy the algorithm, and/or change it to suit their needs, but why is that a problem? isn't that the whole basic idea of open source?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkvis View Post
    not sure why you'd want to open-source the whole project *except* the sorting algorithm. that's counter-intuitive to an open-source project. it's true that other entities could copy the algorithm, and/or change it to suit their needs, but why is that a problem? isn't that the whole basic idea of open source?
    If people knew the page sorting algorithm, they would be able to abuse it to make their web pages artificially appear earlier in the search results. This is already a problem today without people knowing the exact algorithm, but it would be a lot worse if it were public knowledge.
    bit∙hub [bit-huhb] n. A source and destination for information.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub View Post
    If people knew the page sorting algorithm, they would be able to abuse it to make their web pages artificially appear earlier in the search results. This is already a problem today without people knowing the exact algorithm, but it would be a lot worse if it were public knowledge.
    granted, but don't you think that if EVERYONE had the ability to do it, it would render the point rather moot? there would be no advantage to manipulating your page to improve its position in the list because everyone would be doing the same thing, and the system would quickly reach a state of equilibrium, and no page, regardless of anyone's attempt to cheat, would do any better than any other, except based on its true relevance. in that environment, any site that didn't take advantage of the situation could only be attributed to laziness or a slavish, misplaced devotion to an unrealistic concept of fairplay.

    when you get down to the root of the whole discussion, isn't the page sorting algorithm the essence of the search engine? if the public were denied access to the algorithm, the whole system might as well be closed-source, making this whole exchange invalid.

    simpy put, google is the most useful set of tools on the internet for the average user, and those who are opposed to their practices can choose to look elsewhere.

  13. #28
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    The two main problems with that kind of argument are: how long would it take for the system to reach equilibrium, if the page ranking algorithm were known, and why would Google let such an important piece of search go, if it is so easy to reach such a bad conclusion? Forget about how valuable Page Rank is. Google releasing it publicly just makes them look like a bunch of clueless dicks for breaking the Internet like that.

  14. #29
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    don't you think that if EVERYONE had the ability to do it, it would render the point rather moot?
    No. The only demonstrable evidence we have of this goes back to Altavista and Yahoo and the early days of Google link lists exploits in which it was possible for everyone to abuse search engines algorithms and artifically control placement, turning the web upside down, with more relevant results often hidden below a list of useless spammy crap.

    So the evidence points the other way around. On this case, knowing, opens up pandora's box.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    Google releasing it publicly just makes them look like a bunch of clueless dicks for breaking the Internet like that.
    I don't think anyone here is suggesting that google should do that, but rather a third-party open-source initiative.

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