(BP) Horizon Response

This is a discussion on (BP) Horizon Response within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom The fact is, at the end of the day, you might actually be more to blame ...

  1. #16
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    The fact is, at the end of the day, you might actually be more to blame for the oil spill that you realize... but as obscure of an argument that would be to prove, it would be significantly less ridiculous to place fair blame on government bureaucracy, public ignorance, and the entire energy industry as a whole.
    Okay, so we agree here, and that means blaming "government bureaucracy, public ignorance, and the entire energy industry as a whole". From that group, I also think it would be "unridiculous" to hold up BP as a somewhat obviously more guilty party than say, an SUV driving Republican, altho you are right, they both have some share in the responsibility. Very different shares: it's also true that everyone who votes in favour of the right to own a full auto assault rifle is (in some small measure) to blame when someone goes beserk at a high school, but that does not mean the person who actually does the shooting is somehow "no more guilty than anyone else". As they say, guns don't kill people, people do. A bad oil rig did not create itself, nor did the government, nor the energy industry as a whole. BP operated the rig. It is primary their fault. Even the other oil co. CEO's agreed on this point.

    ... and by the way... there is a big difference between your analogy and the current situation... in our situation the kid ain't dead... s/he's bleeding out right in front of our eyes and instead of taking the kid to the hospital, we're standing in a circle saying "You did it!" At least Mario and 80,000 others are apparently throwing some gauss on the wounds.
    That is hysterical. Neither I nor anyone else is saying we should investigate blame instead of cleaning up (and what exactly are you claiming Mario is doing to assist with that?!?) Generally, an ambulance shows up at a shooting, and the police. You are saying there is no need for the police here, as if no crime could have been committed. Further: without an investigation, how are you going to prevent this from happening again? The most responsible party (BP oil) needs to be stopped and we need some concrete work done to prevent it from happening again, which means investigating the cause and establishing blame. Any other response would only be contributing to continuing irresponsibility by the government/industry.

    Not to mention that an ineffectual clean-up operation is simply a PR operation, whether it's ineffectual by design or just because of incompetent organization by BP and the gov, and from what I've seen that deserves some scrutiny too. Some bunch of flakes running around throwing water (or better yet, sawdust) on a flaming building does not deserve anyone's respect or admiration, so spare me the vacuous rhetoric.
    Last edited by MK27; 06-22-2010 at 02:51 PM.
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  2. #17
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Alright... I'm just about done with this one... Someone else deal with this for a while...
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  3. #18
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    Alright... I'm just about done with this one... Someone else deal with this for a while...
    Okay I win

    In all seriousness, here's an article about how BP intentionally lied to congress and the public, and got caught by Ed Markey:

    Gulf oil spill: BP accused of lying to Congress | Environment | The Guardian

    Point being, before they claimed the worst case scenario was 60, 000 barrels a day (because "the well could not leak more than that"), they had already internally circulated a memo that noted "if the condition of the well bore deteriorates to the extent that crucial parts fall off, the rate could reach 100,000 barrels a day".

    Why lie? And who is to blame for that mismanagement? The government? You and me? The energy industry as a whole? I don't think so.

    I'll tell you "why lie" -- because you know you are guilty and you need to start laying as thick a smokescreen as you can ASAP. And because if you are generally a crook and cheat, lying is part of your modus operandi. Why not lie? Probably those interfering kooks called "the government" will want to regulate that too. (Whine: "That hurts my economic viability!"). People and companies should be allowed to lie as much as they like and do anything they want if it involves making money, right?

    Also, as a reminder, BP applied for and received a waiver WRT to environmental impact assessments for the Deepwater Horizon:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050404118.html

    Are happy go-lucky government "regulators" that share cocaine and prostitutes with their industry partners partially to blame for this? Of course. But BP, by asking for such a waiver in the first place, is still the party with primary responsibility. Morally, if not legally. Perhaps even the possibility of such a waiver should be outlawed, then it can be: morally, and legally.

    This one's pretty interesting because it reveals BP knew the rig was leaking long before the explosion, and refused to stop production to replace the faulty part (which was in the FAILED blow out preventer!):
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...r-horizon-leak

    But I guess "no one is to blame" for all that, either. I mean why should they have to halt production to fix their safety equipment? I hope 1) some of these jerks go to jail for decades, 2) BP loses everything, end-of-story. 3) No one else is allowed to operate a business this way again, and we actually enforce the law.
    Last edited by MK27; 06-22-2010 at 07:07 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  4. #19
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    Alright... I'm just about done with this one... Someone else deal with this for a while...
    I essentially agree that blaming BP at this stage is like blaming the assassin for his crime. It's redundant and of no practical use. Besides BP is claiming it was the rig maintenance company that was responsible for the accident. So the whole blame argument is of no use. Neither it will be fully determined soon.

    More important perhaps was to lobby the government to lift international barriers to aid, organize a scientific taskforce and force BP to allow scientists and other specialists at the scene to make true measurements and access the gravity of the situation. I also suggest forcing MK27 fat ass off his chair and go help clean the beaches in the country that welcomed him. Shouting "Blame!" with a shovel in his hands will gather a lot more respect.
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    Just a tip, they only consider applications that predict the dynamic pressure from the flow from the tip of the wellhead to +10 feet above to within two standard deviations of what they're measuring.

    The rest are thrown out because they're probably useless to read.

    Besides BP is claiming it was the rig maintenance company that was responsible for the accident
    There's a separate legal definition for 'maintenance.' BP owned the contract for the rig, like 'purchasing' a rental car.

    EDIT:

    "Well" constitutes all man-made structures (legally, there's no such thing as a natural well). Subsequently, the worst case scenario was a dead BOP that still had its annulus seals. The annulus seals were lost and recovered in the mud/formation return line. That scenario is believed to have occured during a test of the BOP in which ocean currents or an unattentive drill tender moved the drill string with respect to the sea floor (easy as bumping a joystick to be honest).
    Last edited by BobMcGee123; 06-23-2010 at 11:42 PM.
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  6. #21
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    More important perhaps was to lobby the government to lift international barriers to aid, organize a scientific taskforce and force BP
    BP won't go for that. And since they are so innocent, I suppose we really should let those who know best do their thing, and stop trying to "blame" them or make further accusations of irresponsibility by demanding they relinquish control of the clean-up.

    BP May Be Burning Sea Turtles Alive | Politeia | Big Think
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  7. #22
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Hmmm... hot water... salt... cooked turtle... I think if we fly the French out here and give them some spoons we might just be able to kill two birds with one stone... the oil crisis and rising sea levels.

    Yum yum.


    EDIT: Don't ask why I assume the French would eat turtle soup... just seemed to make sense to me.
    Sent from my iPad®

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