Microsoft Kinect (formerly Natal)

This is a discussion on Microsoft Kinect (formerly Natal) within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Ah, the shortcomings of the technology. I get you. o_O They seemed like "right" movements to me. O_o This has ...

  1. #46
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    Ah, the shortcomings of the technology. I get you.
    o_O

    They seemed like "right" movements to me.
    O_o

    This has been educational.

    Soma

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    O_o
    That's some nice fanaticism. The only part of "Mario Galaxy" that used motion sensing (not the "light gun technology"), as far as I can remember, was twitching the controller to make Mario spin. Even the mechanic bits using the pointer felt like a horrible last minute addition to the game.

    "Mario Galaxy" was an great game. It would be awesome if you could play it with an XBox 360 or PS3 controller.
    There's also the ball rolling and the stingray surfing.

    If motion sensing is so awesome, tell us a game that makes good use of it. I don't want to look like a fool while playing the game. I don't want a pathetic experience. I want a decent mechanic that isn't exhausting or annoying. Where is this game?
    Soma
    Red Steal 2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Escapist
    Over three years after the Wii hit store shelves, Red Steel 2 finally delivers the motion-controlled swordplay we expected from the original Red Steel, and it more than makes up for any niggling flaws in the level design
    Tiger Woods PGA 10

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Up
    With the addition of MotionPlus, Woods 10 on the Wii is a fantastic golfing videogame, besting its console counterparts because of its control options, extra courses, party game modes, and Frolf. Not to mention, it's casual friendly for anyone to play, but with enough difficulty options for the hardcore to stay interested. It's almost hard to imagine it getting better than this for the foreseeable future.
    Wii Sports Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Bomb
    Resort is the big showcase for Nintendo's sensitivity-enhancing brick, and it works very well. Wii Sports Resort and the MotionPlus combine to finally make good on all the promises that the Wii originally made back in 2006. Remember all the dopey models, hiding behind couches and twisting on-screen swords with lifelike precision? With the MotionPlus attached, everything feels just a bit closer to that reality. It's probably most noticeable in the sword fighting game, where you have to swing at multiple angles to get around your opponent's defense. The sword stuff ended up being my favorite game of the lot, actually. It just feels right.
    And e3 impressions of the new Legend of Zelda

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Bomb
    Precise one-to-one sword movement, smooth and accurate aiming, the visceral impact of moving the remote and nunchuk as if you were fighting with a sword and shield... all that stuff is in here, and I thought it felt great to play.

    ...the sword attacks now follow the way you swing the remote precisely enough that you feel like you've pretty much got total control over the way you attack. You can even jab the remote straight out to thrust your sword directly into enemies. It's a neat effect.
    Now go ahead and nitpick and say how none of this
    matters, or how you don't want to "look like a fool" or
    "exhaust" yourself playing these games. But those
    are your personal problems that have nothing to do
    with the technology itself.

    If you seriously become exhausted with this technology,
    you have may have some serious health concerns.
    I would get that checked out.
    Staying away from General.

  3. #48
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    Red Steal 2
    I haven't played it. I have the first one; it is a bad dog. I'll check the sequel out when it is in the bargain bin.

    Tiger Woods PGA 10
    A crappy experience regardless of the platform.

    Wii Sports Resort
    A crappy experience using motion sensing for games as a gimmick where the pointer would have provided a smoother mechanic.

    The Legend of Zelda: The Skyward Sword
    Until the game is actually published, we will not know how good or bad it is.

    But those are your personal problems that have nothing to do
    with the technology itself.
    You are right of course. It is my fault that motion sensing technology sucks and using it is almost universally gimmicky while tending to result in a flaky experience. This all happened because of my annoying desire to want a great experience while playing games. If I only wanted to play games with gimmicky or crappy controls the technology would be amazing. It is a major personal problem. I apologize to everyone for my problem. It will be resolved when you all give me all your money.

    Soma

  4. #49
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    The biggest problem is that many people simply say motion sensing is a gimmick just because it hasn't provided any sensible experience yet.
    It is more correct to say that the technology isn't at fault, it is still untested. The games are gimmicks because they fail to deliver a promising experience with the technology.
    That much is fine to admit, but dismissing technology that is still unproven is just wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #50
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    The problem with all of those statements is in the history.

    The technology used by the "Wiimote" isn't new or innovative. It has been tried, tested, and applied with success in many fields.

    This application of technology isn't the first to appear in the game market for motion sensing. This particular application isn't new to games.

    That developers have continued to "fail to deliver a promising experience with the technology" for so many years is safely considered thorough testing.

    The evidence suggest that it is a misapplication of technology. I'll grant you that in the fullness of time a few great games may exist to argue for the existence of the application, but that is a far cry from being "the way of the future".

    Soma

  6. #51
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    Many things have existed before, and many things have been tested before. Yet, something that was unpopular in the past may yet become popular in the future.
    I don't really think the technology has been properly tested. You'd have to name some games that properly implement motion controls that works. The new Zelda is the only game I know of that implements good motion controls that seems to work properly.
    I do believe it is the way of the future, because I simply do no see Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony dropping it in the near future. They've all invested a lot of money into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #52
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Companies being stubborn with their wares in no way decides "the future". A healthy sense of skepticism is necessary if you ascribe to "buyer beware" at all.

    Just some questions from an anonymous third party:
    But I'm always skeptical of new stuff. Working in tech support like I do, it's my job to think about things in terms of what will go wrong. When someone says, "Hey, this new game console will have -insert gimmicky input or multiplayer thing here- , and it'll be great and it'll sell so much and YOU WILL LOVE IT," I can't help thinking, okay, but how is it going to break? How will it be frustrating and difficult to use? Will it even work at all? How many calls to your tech support group will it generate? Will you hire an effective and well-trained support group to deal with problems, or will this GREAT NEW PRODUCT just turn out to be another rough spot in gaming's history, which is so full of them?

  8. #53
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    *shrug* I believe it is the future. It may not be a statement, then, as you say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #54
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    Actually, the future is a complete collapse of civilization
    and with it most forms technology. So this debate is
    ultimately pointless.
    Staying away from General.

  10. #55
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    *shrug* I believe it is the future.
    Why? What makes you believe that? It's quite extraordinary that claim. No past evidence to support it and no real evidence in the present to sustain it. Just a handful of niche and specifically tailored games that offer a modicum amount of motion detection at certain key points, and not always effectively.

    I could say the future of gaming is controllers. And there is no way you can contradict me. My case is stronger. I have history to support me and the numbers of games across all genres using controllers, keyboard and the mouse as a means of input today and for the foreseeable future.

    You are doing futurology to hide your real motivation. i.e. You wish motion detection will be the future. This whole debate wouldn't have started if you'd be honest about it from the beginning.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #56
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I think the mouse is the future. Although Hollywood seems to believe that supposed super-geniuses still use keyboards as evidenced in a few recent shows/movies:

    • CSI
    • Avatar
    • Iron Man 2
    • Live Free or Die Hard


    They are incessantly typing away on the keyboard without any output from the monitor as to what they are typing and tons of crap happens on the screen b/c of it. Really stupid.

    Some things work so well they don't need any major re-designs or changes. I'll take a keyboard and mouse any day over any other type of input device.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Why? What makes you believe that? It's quite extraordinary that claim. No past evidence to support it and no real evidence in the present to sustain it. Just a handful of niche and specifically tailored games that offer a modicum amount of motion detection at certain key points, and not always effectively.
    Because games that implement it well are awesome to play. MP3 was a good one. The new zelda will hopefully be too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #58
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Because games that implement it well are awesome to play. MP3 was a good one. The new zelda will hopefully be too.
    One, two, three, or even 10 games a future do not make.

  14. #59
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    Not for you, but for me. Even if minority, it will definitely stay into the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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