Microsoft Kinect (formerly Natal)

This is a discussion on Microsoft Kinect (formerly Natal) within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; I will admit that the graphics style in the new game is a little disappointing You shouldn't admit that, because ...

  1. #31
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    I will admit that the graphics style in the new game is a little disappointing
    You shouldn't admit that, because they're absolutely
    fantastic. They're going for a watercolor-esque painting
    vibe and it works rather well.

    It's a cross between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.
    I can't think of any other games that so willingly adopt
    different art styles for their sequels. And that's why
    Nintendo is awesome. It's not some blind "fanboy"
    admiration; it's a recognition of the fact that, unlike most
    other developers, Nintendo actually takes chances and
    does different things.

    I can guarantee you that when Sony announces the
    PSP2, it'll "borrow" heavily from the 3DS.
    Staying away from General.

  2. #32
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    No, I don't like it. The Wind Waker style fitted fine for its environment. The realistic style for Twilight Princess was also well. Unfortunately, this new blend looks just silly.
    I commend Nintendo for trying out things, but I don't necessarily have to like them. I wish they would go back to TP style.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #33
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    They only think I think they need to work on is to
    make Link's pants less baggy. Other than that, with
    a year of polish left, I fully expect a masterpiece.

    This isn't 1993, Nintendo.
    Staying away from General.

  4. #34
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    It's the future. Accept it.
    Not it's not. It's a gimmick. Admit it.

    What if I want to just sit down and play a game without standing up, without moving, without doing the motions in the game...pretty much without looking like an idiot?

  5. #35
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Metroid Prime 3 put it to a pretty good use. It was fun. Now, hopefully, Zelda Skyward Sword will do the same.
    Oh yes, there have been poor games (Force Unleashed comes to mind) where the motion sensing just didn't work right. That is not the fault of the concept. It may be the games or the hardware, but not the concept.
    It's the future. Accept it.
    Naming some games that work with the technology doesn't make it the future... in fact, it pretty much solidifies my point. Microsoft Flight Simulator is a pretty awesome game to play with a yoke... but it doesn't mean I'm looking forward to the yoke and pedals to take over all of my games... it's a niche market... just as motion sensing has almost proven to be. It's good for some games, not good for all... for every game that you name where motion sensing works I can make twenty where it wouldn't.

    Nintendo has had two things going for them in the past two generations of game consoles... short-term innovation and a lower price-point than their competitors. Don't get me wrong... what Nintendo did with the Wii was absolutely genius in the video game market because they understand the system better than anyone... consoles only last five-six years before they fizzle out and a new generation comes along... that's just enough time to get people hooked on a fad and then give them something different by the time they start getting bored with it.
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 06-16-2010 at 08:31 PM.
    Sent from my iPadŽ

  6. #36
    Registered User jdragyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I actually saw the Kinect 1/2 hour infomerci*cough*presentation on tv (with Cirque de Solei "imagining" the presentation). It looked like it would be a neat event to actually attend, but if I wasn't curious how they would showcase the Kinect I wouldn't have bothered to watch it at all.

    Each time they showed the Kinect "in action", I couldn't help but think that the actors failed to put in enough practice to make it look like the on-screen stuff was being controlled by them.

    I also own a Wii and got the Star Wars light-sabre duel game for my boy who is a huge Star Wars fan. I also got the attachments that light up so you can "really swing a light-sabre". While playing with the attachments on the controllers, the game doesn't respond very well. While playing without the attachments, the game responds fine but it's awkward to swing and not meet any resistance. I can only imagine things like this on Kinect will be even worse without even a long controller in your hand to give you some sense of the weight.

    That said, I really like the thought of this for controlling tv and movie watching. Waving my hand in the air instead of looking for the button on the remote, especially in the dark (ignoring the fact that I have learned my remotes so well that I don't need to look at them to find the buttons I use) would be nice. One big benefit would be never losing the remote or having to change the batteries...
    C+/- programmer extraordinaire

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdragyn View Post
    That said, I really like the thought of this for controlling tv and movie watching. Waving my hand in the air instead of looking for the button on the remote, especially in the dark (ignoring the fact that I have learned my remotes so well that I don't need to look at them to find the buttons I use) would be nice. One big benefit would be never losing the remote or having to change the batteries...
    As it turns out, the Kinect can't read you if you're sitting
    down. So if you want to use it to fast forward, you have
    to stand up first and then wave your hand. It can't separate
    the player from the furniture or something.

    Or so goes the rumblings right now.
    Staying away from General.

  8. #38
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Not it's not. It's a gimmick. Admit it.
    It's not a gimmick. I cannot admit what I don't think.

    What if I want to just sit down and play a game without standing up, without moving, without doing the motions in the game...pretty much without looking like an idiot?
    It just shows how much you hate everything new. You just can't accept anything that's different from the traditional way.
    There is a limit to how much one wants to do, naturally, and overdoing it is just as bad. While I like motion controls, I don't want to stand up and throws my arms around wildly.
    But then, you don't need to. Metroid Prime 3, Twilight Princess, heck, even Wii Sports, allowed you to sit down and didn't require exaggerated motion. There is a sweet spot in there and developers need to find it. When they do, it will enhance gameplay.
    That's the future.

    Although, not all games are fit for motion. But not all games are fit for traditional controls either. I believe different game categories need unique control interfaces. Hopefully, that will come.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #39
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    I feel like we're arguing semantics here, because nobody seems to be disagreeing with the point that the controller is and will always be a necessary and popular way to interface with video games. So what's the argument? I'm not claiming that motion control will never have its place in video games... it will... but it will be in the same place that the driving wheel, the laser gun, and the dance pad is... a suitable, and possibly preferable, though ultimately unnecessary interface for a small percentage of games.

    I've played Wii Sports and Mario Sunshine and Twilight Princess... I've done it all with the Wii controller and it was fun... but every one of those games could be played with a controller. In fact, the latter two would be significantly better with a controller. When you consider this, it becomes a pretty bold statement to say that motion control is "the future." There is a big difference between being the future and existing in the future.
    Sent from my iPadŽ

  10. #40
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Perhaps we are. I just don't like to see "motion sensing is a fad," since most certainly, that it is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    I
    I've played Wii Sports and Mario Sunshine and Twilight Princess... I've done it all with the Wii controller and it was fun... but every one of those games could be played with a controller. In fact, the latter two would be significantly better with a controller.
    Seriously? Is that the extent of your experience with
    motion control? Two Gamecube Games (one of which
    was simply a port to Wii, Twilight Princess) and a four
    year old bundled game?

    Mario Sunshine can't be played with a Wii controller.
    It's a Gamecube game. Perhaps you mean Mario Galaxy,
    and if that's the case, you're wrong about it being
    significantly better with a normal controller. You can't
    get significantly better than BEST OF ALL TIME

    You should try some more.

    I would say your arguments are apt to describe Kinect
    by Microsoft. I absolutely cannot picture that being the
    future of gaming. But pre-existing control methods, such
    as analog, with motion capabilities and pointer controls
    most definitely do offer the better experiences; such as
    the Wii mote, or the HD rip-off, the Sony Move.

    Also, all 3D game can be played with a D-Pad. That's not
    to say Analog control is a fad. It's become the standard.
    As, too, will Motion Control. There's nothing the Wii
    control scheme can't do that normal control schemes can
    (that I can think of); but plenty that Wii can do which the
    others can't.

    It's not an either/or decision. Motion control enhances
    current input methods just like Analog did. The D-Pad
    still remained on normal controllers after Analog was
    introduced.
    Last edited by Cheeze-It; 06-17-2010 at 12:21 PM.
    Staying away from General.

  12. #42
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    I just don't like to see "motion sensing is a fad," since most certainly, that it is not.
    O_o

    It was seventeen years ago. It was twelve years ago. It was seven years ago. What makes this time different? Sure, the technology is a lot better, but it is still crap.

    Metroid Prime 3 put it to a pretty good use.
    O_o

    What's up with all these crappy examples? In "Metroid Prime 3" I had to operate mechanisms associated with the characters left hand with my right hand. Pulling a lever with the wrong hand does not provide an immersive experience.

    "Metroid Prime 3" put the pointer ("light gun technology") to great use, but the use was really no better than any of the other first/third person shooters on the Wii.



    Perhaps you mean Mario Galaxy,
    and if that's the case, you're wrong about it being
    significantly better with a normal controller. You can't
    get significantly better than BEST OF ALL TIME.
    That's some nice fanaticism. The only part of "Mario Galaxy" that used motion sensing (not the "light gun technology"), as far as I can remember, was twitching the controller to make Mario spin. Even the mechanic bits using the pointer felt like a horrible last minute addition to the game.

    "Mario Galaxy" was an great game. It would be awesome if you could play it with an XBox 360 or PS3 controller.



    If motion sensing is so awesome, tell us a game that makes good use of it. I don't want to look like a fool while playing the game. I don't want a pathetic experience. I want a decent mechanic that isn't exhausting or annoying. Where is this game?

    Soma

  13. #43
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    It was seventeen years ago. It was twelve years ago. It was seven years ago. What makes this time different? Sure, the technology is a lot better, but it is still crap.
    What is "crap"?

    What's up with all these crappy examples? In "Metroid Prime 3" I had to operate mechanisms associated with the characters left hand with my right hand. Pulling a lever with the wrong hand does not provide an immersive experience.
    Those mechanisms were pretty sweet, regardless of whether it was the correct hand or not.

    If motion sensing is so awesome, tell us a game that makes good use of it. I don't want to look like a fool while playing the game. I don't want a pathetic experience. I want a decent mechanic that isn't exhausting or annoying. Where is this game?
    Metroid Prime 3. This one I know.
    Wii Sports wasn't half bad, even though it's a pathetic game in itself.
    Wii Sports Resort probably isn't bad, but I've never played. It isn't a very fun game anyway.
    And hopefully the upcoming Zelda: Skyward sword.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #44
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    That's not to say Analog control is a fad.
    o_O

    Thirty years of pedigree suggests that analog control is not a fad.

    Seventeen years of motion sensing being "employed" and promptly "forgotten" suggests that it is a fad.



    What is "crap"?
    In the context of the motion sensing abilities of the "Wiimote"?

    It doesn't work if you move to fast.
    It doesn't work if you move to slow.
    It doesn't work if you rotate to fast.
    It doesn't work if you rotate to slow.
    It doesn't work if you rotate the controller out of the expected "normal" orientation before an event.
    It doesn't work correctly if the rotation is additionally along an unexpected axis.
    It allows you to approximate complex movements with small twitchy movements.

    Those mechanisms were pretty sweet, regardless of whether it was the correct hand or not.
    Why? How? Seriously. I want to know what in your mind made seeing Samus gesture while you "controlled" her with the wrong movements throughout the game "sweet".

    Soma

  15. #45
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Ah, the shortcomings of the technology. I get you. Yes, it can be annoying. That should hopefully become less and less of an issue with time. Hopefully.
    What can I say? When I rotate the Wii remote right, she twists her arm right. When I pull it back, her hand pulls back, etc. Good enough for me. They seemed like "right" movements to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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