Yes, I have added that example, too. Or is there a part of the example that you think is relevant to the discussion that I missed? What part?
You have made the "with your permission" part optional, which it isn't in the original text. Frankly it's hard to come up with another example since the general case "share geographic location" is used, and that is exactly what we are discussing.
vsFor example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services.
I have colour coded the parts I believe are equivalent.For example, we can do it with your permission.
Which part(s) do you think aren't?
In other words, what makes their version legally binding, and mine not?
Well are you a lawyer? I'm not. It's provided as an example of a general case, to clarify. At least that is how I see it's purpose. "Do it" is a much worse example since it's much less descriptive.
No I'm not.
That's why I am trying to simplify it down to make it easier to understand.
Let's put it this way.
What makes YOU believe, or feel, their version is legally binding (meaning has any significance) and mine isn't?
Well it's kind of a pointless exercise if the rules you apply when you are simplifying is not grounded in any real knowledge of the law.
To your last sentence let's just say that I'm confident that their legal department is more competent in the area than you.
They are not grounded in real knowledge of the law, but in English and logic.
Yes, I'm confident their legal department is more competent than me, too. Too bad they are working to screw us over (just like the legal department of any other company), not for us.
If you are now saying since we aren't lawyers and shouldn't care about what legal documents say and should just click "agree" all the way, that fits exactly in the profile of MK27's
I, on the other hand, think we should try our best to understand it.The fact that they can get away with this is evidence of just how stupid and complacent your average consumer is.
By the way, there is really nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. If you look at my post history, about half of my 2000 posts are me admitting I am wrong and apologizing. No need to drag it on and on. It really makes life a lot easier to know you don't have to always be right.
WTF are you talking about, where am I wrong exactly? The idea that this is some background tracking going on is completely wrong since you have to opt-in and agree on each application that uses geo-location i.e like all other devices with this capability.
I have not said that I think you should just click "Agree" on any eulas or tos or real documents for that matter. But when it comes to changing the text and determine what is legally binding or not, let's just say I don't think there is much point in that.
Last edited by Subsonics; 06-24-2010 at 10:51 PM.
Let's not simplify then.
The original text -
You are saying that means, they cannot share geographic location with application providers IF YOU DON'T OPT IN?For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services.
Exactly, since the condition "when you opt in" is there. But also because that is how iOS works, just like Android (sorry) but it's relevant.
"I can eat the icecream in your fridge. For example, I may eat the icecream in your fridge when it's hot outside."
Does that mean I cannot eat your icecream if it's not hot outside?
Location data – Google offers location-enabled services, such as Google Maps for mobile. If you use those services, Google may receive information about your actual location (such as GPS signals sent by a mobile device) or information that can be used to approximate a location (such as a cell ID).
There is the opt in part. If you use Google Maps, Google may receive information about your location.If you use those services, Google may receive information about your actual location
Nothing ambiguous about it. If you don't use "those services" (Google's location-enabled services), this clause doesn't apply.
Apple is saying, as long as you want to use the iPhone, Apple can get your location without further approval from you, AND they can share it with anyone they choose. And that's what most people have problems with.