The world according to Steve Jobs

This is a discussion on The world according to Steve Jobs within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Kiosks are a good place for tablets (touch screens) because there is usually no desk, they are not typically used ...

  1. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    Kiosks are a good place for tablets (touch screens) because there is usually no desk, they are not typically used for extended periods of time (tireness), and many people that don't know how to use computers use them.*

    So are phones (due to the form factor, and people don't usually use a phone on a desk).

    But for a desktop? Most/all of the benefits of touchscreen don't apply. It just looks silly.

    If it's a desktop for toddlers or old people, I can understand. But if you are going to use it for longer periods of time, might as well learn to use the mouse.

    *I agree touchscreens can be more intuitive and easy to learn, but with some training, the mouse is much more effective.

  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    If it's a desktop for toddlers or old people, I can understand. But if you are going to use it for longer periods of time, might as well learn to use the mouse.

    *I agree touchscreens can be more intuitive and easy to learn, but with some training, the mouse is much more effective.
    I don't get your point here, I would prefer to be able to directly manipulate the content on my screen than indirectly. Your last point is valid even if you make the comparison between a command line interface and a mouse driven GUI. A command line interface can often be more effective, it doesn't mean that it has gained popularity for mainstream computing.

    But to be able to evaluate this you would need to do extensive usability tests, both of us are merely speculating.

  3. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    That is true, but the mouse is much easier to learn and offers great reward.

    I think people will still learn to use it, until something better comes along (touch screens won't cut it).

    Taking 30 minutes to learn to use a mouse so you can use computers much more effectively for 40-50 years sounds like a very good deal.

    For people already using the mouse, there's no reason to switch to tablets.

  4. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    In your opinion.

  5. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    Of course

    And usually people say that when they disagree.

    Just to clarify, I am making 2 points here.

    1.) If proficient at both, the mouse is much more effective than a touchscreen for a desktop computer.

    2.) People in the future won't mind taking the time to learn to use the mouse because of 1).

    For people already using the mouse, there's no reason to switch to tablets.
    Follows logically from 1.

    Which point (or both) are you disagreeing on?

  6. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    I disagree. But the reason I said in your opinion is that it's kind of pointless to discuss. I don't think a mouse is more effective if the UI is adopted to fit touch interaction. It's not that it's hard to learn to use a mouse but you can do more than merely point and click with your hands.

  7. #22
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,383
    Typing, not clicking is really the big issue with touchscreens. Tablets are too small in order to acommodate a on-screen keyboard that offers good performance. It's definitely twitter-message friendly. But not email, forum, word processor, or anything else friendly.

    But the real downer to me is the tablets completely throwing away all that we have been so hard studying through the years and trying to apply in terms of Accessibility. Anyone with even a mild motor disability, will not be able to use a tablet, ever. And I don't see how the human interface offered by touchscreens can be improved in this regard.

    In any case, we've all heard it before. When laptops where hailed as the end of desktops. And what happened? Really, not even PCs could kill PCs. It's not tablets that will.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #23
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,586
    The more the iPad offers the more it becomes a PC. Since we all know it will eventually be a 'tablet' PC I think I'll just stick to my PC now b/c it already knows it's a PC and doesn't try to pretend to be something else. Everyone knows iPad is essentially a PC and the more Jobs tries to prevent it from becoming one the more he will push himself out of the market. Flash anyone?

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    Flash allows you to choose what you want to run on your machine without Apple censorship. That is Very Bad(TM).

  10. #25
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,586
    But I thought Apple was Mr. Open Source. Ha. Now we find that Jobs and Apple are no different than Microsoft and that perhaps Microsoft has not been wrong for simply trying to protect their market. There is nothing different between what Apple is attempting to do right now and what Microsoft has done and continues to do to protect their interests. Apple's true colors have finally shown through. They are just jealous of Microsoft and have been the entire time.

  11. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    There is a difference between protecting the OS itself and requiring all programs must go through Apple Store (or whatever they call it). IIRC, a developer need to get a developer account for $99, before s/he can even submit programs for evaluation. And Apple is known for rejecting apps with no apparent reason, and taking a long while for the rest.

    That is very draconian IMNSHO.

    At least Windows allow you to run anything people write.

    Off topic -
    Open source sure can make money. I'm just about to throw $500 at Google for a Nexus One phone mainly for the Android OS, which is open source.

    Was considering Android and Nokia's Symbian (both are open source).

    Wouldn't really mind Windows Mobile either.

    iPhone was eliminated at round -1.

  12. #27
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,459
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    There is a difference between protecting the OS itself and requiring all programs must go through Apple Store (or whatever they call it). IIRC, a developer need to get a developer account for $99, before s/he can even submit programs for evaluation. And Apple is known for rejecting apps with no apparent reason, and taking a long while for the rest.

    That is very draconian IMNSHO.

    At least Windows allow you to run anything people write.

    Off topic -
    Open source sure can make money. I'm just about to throw $500 at Google for a Nexus One phone mainly for the Android OS, which is open source.

    Was considering Android and Nokia's Symbian (both are open source).

    Wouldn't really mind Windows Mobile either.

    iPhone was eliminated at round -1.
    Not to mention their "you're not allowed to use Object-C as an intermediate language" policy. Smashing portability, WHY!?

    Apple are very good at marketing, good enough to convince to majority that their devices are original and their idea. Of course, history repeats itself .
    Last edited by zacs7; 06-14-2010 at 10:56 PM.

  13. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    Haha that is ridiculous. Microsoft can do it because they have 90% market share (smashing portability hurts others). But Apple?!

    Smashing portability would hurt themselves.

  14. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    Haha that is ridiculous. Microsoft can do it because they have 90% market share (smashing portability hurts others). But Apple?!

    Smashing portability would hurt themselves.
    Can't believe this turns into a mac vs pc thread. My interest was to discuss the future of personal computing, it's moving on and evolving, and will not look the same for all eternity, it's also what makes it interesting.

    Now cyberfish, that market share is valid for the desktop segment, for handheld devices where this policy you are referring to is relevant, i.e for iOS. Apple have a far larger market share, MS is in the minority and there is also far more players, thankfully. At least hopefully future discussions like this can be less polarized, lol.

  15. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,145
    Ah sorry I thought we've moved on to desktops (just like in every other thread...)

    Portability doesn't really matter for phones. Apple is 100% not portable (not just the library, but also the language), Symbian and S40 (Nokia) run J2ME, which is somewhat portable. Android also uses Java, but sadly doesn't support J2ME libraries, so not portable. Windows Mobile uses their dumbed down version of Windows SDK, so not portable.

    Pretty much nothing is portable for handheld devices, which is unfortunate.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Open C/C++ Jobs for Top Developers
    By Susan N in forum Projects and Job Recruitment
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-04-2008, 08:56 PM
  2. The 7 New Wonders of the World
    By Mario F. in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 12-08-2006, 12:55 PM
  3. Obfuscated Code Contest: The Results
    By Stack Overflow in forum Contests Board
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-18-2005, 04:39 PM
  4. Converting from Screen to World Coordinates
    By DavidP in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-11-2004, 12:51 PM
  5. Too much to ask ?
    By deflamol in forum C Programming
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-06-2004, 04:30 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21