Questions regarding the text in Thinking in C++ by Bruce Eckel

This is a discussion on Questions regarding the text in Thinking in C++ by Bruce Eckel within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Elysia Anyway, I would call it prejudice because Linus simply dismisses C++ without even considering its advantages ...

  1. #16
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Anyway, I would call it prejudice because Linus simply dismisses C++ without even considering its advantages over C in situations.
    Could be. I think perhaps he was being intentionally nasty because there really are people who run around insisting C is "not a modern language" and it's minimalism makes it too difficult to use, and that people who don't understand this are stupid and wrong (the worst examples I've seen of this are not here BTW). You could insist to the author that the linux kernel would be better in pascal or fortran or anything, but if you did that by strongly implying he was stupid and wrong to use an unmodern impossible language, then it's not really surprising that eventually you will get a response like "even if the choice of C were to do nothing but keep the C++ programmers out, that in itself would be a huge reason to use C".

    In other words, perhaps that prejudice was formed because a skilled and intelligent C++ programmer would not bother harassing the kernel people and calling them fools for not using God's chosen tool, because a skilled and intelligent person knows it ain't true. So those people could really have been producers of crap. Further, since the kernel is not in C++, all of the admirable work he dealt with daily would be in C. So it is self-reinforcing I guess. Probably some inversion of this could be applied to people who work exclusively in a C++ realm.

    I think the major reason for the success of linux is together with GNU it provides an open source clone of unix. It and BSD were developed about the same time, but I believe minix was in circulation a few years before that.

    @capt.jack: see what a snakepit there is here? People are freaking hilariously territorial about everything. That's what Bruce Eckel is working within, I just wanted to point that out in context. It's like political propaganda written to seduce the innocent/naive.
    Last edited by MK27; 06-05-2010 at 11:43 AM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #17
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    C++ obsoletes C for certain solutions. C wipes the floor with C++ for others.

    And this is only a problem because certain idiots use the wrong logical operators.
    i.e. C++ strengths => C sucks. And, C strengths => C++ sucks.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #18
    Registered User capt.jack's Avatar
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    i think Linus had a prejudiced view pt. abt c++ (as MK27 said it may have been an outcome of the agitation by a bunch of 'so-called c++ pro' bragging their OO understanding and in the process underestimating the advantages of C in kernel developmnt)
    bt Linus has been prejudiced in other facets too... according to the pioneer of FOSS movement Richard Stallman..Linus thought that the parts of the GNU OS were kept around his kernel to complete a full OS whereas the truth was that GNU OS was lacking an efficient kernel and since they had not much time and resources to fully write an efficient kernel from scratch, they considered rather it would be better to put linus's kernel in tht gap to fill tht void... bt irony is tht since the inception of GNU OS Linus has been calling it Linux OS as if it was his entire effort to build an entire open src os frm scratch and today unrighteously Linux OS has become a synonym for any open src os. till date Richard Stallman gets offended when sumone calls it as Linux os..he wants tht we should rightfully call it GNU/Linux OS so tht people around the world become aware of GNU and its philosophy of freedom

    coming back to the topic.. frm this discussion so far i have reached the conclusion tht no single language can claim to be the only solution to our programming needs...even OOP for that matter fails sometimes to satisfy the needs of the programmer(may be thts why multi-paradigm programming languages evolved)...bt it all depends on the programmer to choose the right tool for the right job to efficiently accomplish the task with least efforts and resources involved
    so its better to master 2-3 languages beforehand to be on the safe side

  4. #19
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt.jack View Post
    Richard Stallman..Linus
    There's some deeper factors at work there maybe -- at that time RMS was already an infamous iconoclast, very political "on and off the field", whereas Linus was an unknown kid genius. So it makes sense that 1) people who might resent RMS as a poster boy or figure head could still gravitate to a system with LT as a poster boy/figure head, 2) that RMS would grouchily resent this himself

    so its better to master 2-3 languages beforehand to be on the safe side
    Someone (maybe Salem?) recently posted a link where the author recommended learning six languages and he listed the specific different types he thought were important. I'll be dead by then, but I do think more than one is a good idea. Also, I think getting some deep experience with C would be good for C++ purists, and vice versa.

    High level, dynamically typed, object oriented, interpreted languages (perl, python, javascript, etc.) are the tish IMO if you are into C/C++ since they are actually implemented in C (or C++), and have a similar basic schema, but also provide a strong contrast. Once you are free of all the low level issues, clunkiness, and (absurd seeming) type constraints it's pretty amazing what you can accomplish with very concise code who's "elegance" is still in the same realm. That's the only place I would give credit to the idea that you are "freed from having to think about the computer" and can work more abstractly, but it comes at an obvious cost in terms of performance.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  5. #20
    Registered User capt.jack's Avatar
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    There's some deeper factors at work there maybe -- .....
    i think u may be rite on this..

    Someone (maybe Salem?) recently posted a link where the author recommended learning six languages and he listed the specific different types he thought were important. I'll be dead by then, but I do think more than one is a good idea. Also, I think getting some deep experience with C would be good for C++ purists, and vice versa
    can u please post the link.... i want to have a look at it
    thanx

  6. #21
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt.jack View Post
    can u please post the link.... i want to have a look at it
    thanx
    Here it is:

    Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  7. #22
    Registered User capt.jack's Avatar
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    @MK27

    Thanx a lot mate... u r indeed very helpful

    and thanx to rest other frnds who r always there to help others
    and i am proceeding further in 'Thinking in C++'.... so i'll soon post other foolish doubts too .. so tht with the help of this community i may become able to really 'Think in C++' and why only c++ later on C too

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