Flash on Apple Devices Discussion

This is a discussion on Flash on Apple Devices Discussion within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; O_o I haven't really thought about this until just now, but how does the "no interpreters!!!1!bang!one!" thing work with formats ...

  1. #31
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,230
    O_o

    I haven't really thought about this until just now, but how does the "no interpreters!!!1!bang!one!" thing work with formats like TrueType, OpenType, H264, PDF, Postscript, and others? Is Apple "turning a blind eye" to the interpreters for formats they want to support? Do they frown on these interpreters as well? Are developers limited to whatever support for such formats the Apple SDK provides?

    *shrug*

    I guess I'm only asking because a lot of formats require an interpreter of some kind. I can't imagine that Apple really wants to restrict third-party support for all such formats. How could they ever justify the loss of content?

    Soma

  2. #32
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,438
    It's Apple that will provide access to those formats through its own API.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Subsonics, have you actually read the link I gave you?
    Yes I did, why? A program made with flash for the iphone are converted into a standard executable ie no interpretation by a plugin happens as it's not, and never been available.

    From your link:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adobe
    Is the Flash Player runtime bundled along with the application?

    No. iPhone applications built with Flash Platform tools are compiled into standard, native iPhone executable packages and there is no runtime interpreter that could be used to run Flash byte-code within the application.

  4. #34
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,230
    It's Apple that will provide access to those formats through its own API.
    By this I assume you mean to say that developers are limited to what of those formats the SDK provides. I'm actually interested to know if the case has come up for other standard formats of a similar nature, ones not provided by the SDK.

    Soma

  5. #35
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    Yes I did, why?
    The link at adobe also says many other things, including Adobe commitment to provide Flash support to the iPhone and other Apple devices starting with CS5. And it also mentions Flash software on the iPhone... another thing you said never happened. And what does it matter the format (native code or otherwise)? No one in this thread complained in either way.

    But of course, companies like Adobe with their long time relationship with Apple are just saying these things without thinking. They get into the habit, right? It's after all a matter, as you put it, everyone thought there will be Flash but they were always wrong, right?

    Your thought process is completely skewed. But I don't really care. Excuse me if I move along to better things.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 05-04-2010 at 06:35 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #36
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,438
    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    By this I assume you mean to say that developers are limited to what of those formats the SDK provides. I'm actually interested to know if the case has come up for other standard formats of a similar nature, ones not provided by the SDK.
    I'm not aware of any. Mind you, I don't use the iPhone or iPad so I may me missing some info on that particular question. I think reading some time ago some problems with some formats like TrueType, but I retained the idea this was merely an implementation choice. Basically, some designers were complaining about the quality of the fonts on the iPad, not that they were missing. Which is also an interesting point... what if Apple brings in bad support to a certain format? It's not that you are allowed to create your own API. You aren't.

    Of course, the decision to cut on the allowed programming languages and APIs has a far greater impact, especially on the developer community. That's my main beef with Apple. Not so much the Flash issue. The latter is more damaging to apple devices users. And probably Adobe if it wasn't for the fact everyone else that matters is adopting Flash.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  7. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    And what does it matter the format (native code or otherwise)? No one in this thread complained in either way.
    A flash file that have been converted into a executable binary, is not really flash anymore is it? It's just made with their point and click tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    But of course, companies like Adobe with their long time relationship with Apple are just saying these things without thinking. They get into the habit, right? It's after all a matter, as you put it, everyone thought there will be Flash but they were always wrong, right?
    This might well be true, people might have anticipated that it would be available in future updates of iphone os. But do you still claim that there have been flash support (ie a native interpreter of flash bytecode on iphone) available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Your thought process is completely skewed. But I don't really care. Excuse me if I move along to better things.
    It's okay, your free to have that opinion. But the fact is that you did not check up on the status of flash availability on the i-devices before you made your statement.

  8. #38
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,230
    Which is also an interesting point... what if Apple brings in bad support to a certain format?
    O_o

    Another good question...

    Of course, the decision to [...] that matters is adopting Flash.
    That's me. This is simple curiosity. I don't plan to develop for the "iAnything" anytime soon.

    Soma

  9. #39
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,230
    A flash file that have been converted into a executable binary, is not really flash anymore is it?
    O_o

    I think you are intentionally confusing/conflating issues.

    A PNG file converted to BMP is no longer a PNG file.

    My C++ application "converted" to Python is still my application.

    From the point of view of a Flash content creator, a Flash file converted to an alternative delivery format, capable of producing the same experience as the Flash file, is still their Flash content.

    Soma

  10. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    O_o

    I think you are intentionally confusing/conflating issues.

    A PNG file converted to BMP is no longer a PNG file.

    My C++ application "converted" to Python is still my application.

    From the point of view of a Flash content creator, a Flash file converted to an alternative delivery format, capable of producing the same experience as the Flash file, is still their Flash content.

    Soma
    I'm not intentionally confusing things but it's a distinct difference between creating a program in flash tool part of cs, and iphones ability to run flash files. The former has more to do with the restrictions in the latest SDK and does not only affect flash as a dev platform. The latter has to do with flash support on the iphone ie if the format is supported natively by a plugin of some sort. It was my understanding that this thread discussed the support of the flash format.

    So far what has been up for discussion are, the rules in the new SDK, flash format support on the iphone os platform and the h264 codec. It should really be three threads in my opinion.

  11. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Actually, having read through the eula it does not concern 3rd party api's at all, that would indeed have been extreme. It simply states that the documented apis should only be used as intended and no linking against apple private apis are permitted. Also the only language that can link to these apis are C, C++ and Obj-C.

    So it does in fact only concern intermediate alternative tools, and languages other than the above.

  12. #42
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Subsonics View Post
    Actually, having read through the eula it does not concern 3rd party api's at all, that would indeed have been extreme.
    Apple takes aim at Adobe... or Android?

    And...

    3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
    So, by your own words, you seem to agree it's extreme.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    You might as well post the whole section and not out of context:

    3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
    "Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs"

    This section only states that the Documented API's should be used in "A manner prescribed" and by private API's they are referring to Apples private non public api's. Not some other 3rd party api. It's just a measure against jail-breaking or questionable (from their point of view) "hacking" activity.

  14. #44
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,438
    Out of context!? Are you being a troll?

    Did you read the link from Ars Technica? Do you know how to interpret text on the screen as you read it on an EULA? Do you even know what this whole issue is all about?

    If what you are saying was true then, by all means, iPhone and iPad could have Flash APIs written by a third party. Namely Adobe. But they can't. You can't link to any third-party APIs inside these devices. Consequently writing such an API is a futile exercise because no one can use it... if they hope to have their software listed on the Apple Store.

    Or are you now going to twist your own argumentation again to say, it doesn't mean that? Sheesh!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Out of context!? Are you being a troll?
    Hey you only posted one sentence out of the context which it belonged. Agreed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    If what you are saying was true then, by all means, iPhone and iPad could have Flash APIs written by a third party.
    No, not since the last part says:

    ..only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21