Copyright issues (or why I sometimes hate the internet)

This is a discussion on Copyright issues (or why I sometimes hate the internet) within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; ... because it's sometimes so easy to infringe on copyrights. I didn't want to publicize my blog more than what's ...

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Copyright issues (or why I sometimes hate the internet)

    ... because it's sometimes so easy to infringe on copyrights.

    I didn't want to publicize my blog more than what's necessary. But something happened and I need your folks help.

    I've written two articles on the UK Digital Bill recently. UK, Lords I salute you and a followup article with user comments. Today I received a comment where I'm accused of being an hypocrite for using copyrighted material. Now, I'm perfectly comfortable with my usage of all images on the blog. As I replied to that reader, who was gracious enough to supply me his email address, all material falls under the following uses:


    • Copyrighted with permission (the singing tree main blog image)


    • Royalty-Free (e.g. the 'CRIME' keyboard image)


    • Fair Use (e.g. the pirate graph)


    • Public Domain (many of the paintings)


    • My own work (e.g. the feedback logo)


    However, after replying to this reader, something started to nag me. I'm having doubts about my use of the Norman Rockwell "No Swimming" Painting under the Fair Use clause. Of all places, right on the UK Lords, I salute you article. Oh, the irony!

    The image quality has been degraded, it has been cropped and it's current size makes it impossible to use it in any meaningful way that may hurt the author or its representatives possible commercial interests. However, because the image is being used as a parody and it isn't exactly in context (neither I make an explicit effort to display the fact it is just a parody), I'm not sure I'm making proper use of a still copyrighted material.

    I'd like your opinion. Forget for a moment you are not lawyer. Just give me your opinion.

    Note: I know, in case of doubt, don't use it. But I think I'm probably being paranoid or pedantic and I really like that image there. So why I'd like to hear your opinions first.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    "Used as a parody" = AOK. (I suppose I should add I haven't gone over to look, but just based on your description.)

    EDIT after looking: Oh not a parody of the painting itself. You've got citation there. What I've done on rare occasion (and seen done) is to put "reproduced without permission" there, generally meaning "I believe I'm within my fair use rights, but if the rights-holder wants to cause a fuss then okay". (Note "the rights-holder", not "some guy".)
    Last edited by tabstop; 04-14-2010 at 05:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    O_o

    You're in Canada. I've never read the specifics of what falls under "Fair Use" in Canada.

    I think your use is a little flaky. Even after having been told that you intended parody, I'm not getting a parody vibe.

    That said, I think "No Swimming" is a 1921 painting. The Copyright may have expired.

    Soma

  4. #4
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    O_o

    No, you're in Canada.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  5. #5
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabstop View Post
    What I've done on rare occasion (and seen done) is to put "reproduced without permission" there, generally meaning "I believe I'm within my fair use rights, but if the rights-holder wants to cause a fuss then okay". (Note "the rights-holder", not "some guy".)
    I like that. Will have to edit the image or use that on the title property. But I like that indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    You're in Canada. I've never read the specifics of what falls under "Fair Use" in Canada.
    I'm in Portugal. But that doesn't make any difference to me. Even if I were to ignore the international copyright agreements (of which Portugal is a part) that protect copyright material between countries, there's always the issue of... good conscience and a genuine respect for right-holders.

    That said, I think "No Swimming" is a 1921 painting. The Copyright may have expired.
    Gossip.

    The 50 year period starts after the author is dead. This extraordinary artist died in 1978. In 1998 the CTEA extended the copyright terms in USA by another 20 years. So his works will only fall under public domain in 2048.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #6
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    I'm in Portugal. But that doesn't make any difference to me.
    Ah. Noted. I misunderstood your response from a different thread.

    And, it would make a difference to some.

    The 50 year period starts after the author is dead. This extraordinary artist died in 1978. In 1998 the CTEA extended the copyright terms in USA by another 20 years. So his works will only fall under public domain in 2048.
    I am not a lawyer, but I'm very well aware of all USA Copyright law. I also now how it isn't compatible with most international laws treaties be damned. (I know what is being practiced.)

    The "CTEA" is irrelevant under the given context. I believe that "No Swimming" was first published in 1921. It would have fallen into "Public Domain" before the "cutoff" date.

    In other words, if I'm right about the publish date, the "CTEA" is irrelevant as is the life and death of the author.

    If I am wrong about the publish date, the work may be protected by a "grandfather" type "doughnut" if the work was not published before 1923 and registered after 1923. The work may also be protected by a different "doughnut" if it was published before 1923 and didn't fall into "Public Domain" before 1978 for some other reason. It was surely published before 1978 so the "after 1978" bit is obviously not relevant.

    Just to be clear, the "CTEA" did protect a lot of works that had already been published or registered, but it did not protect every work just because the author was still alive.

    Soma

  7. #7
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomotap View Post
    I am not a lawyer, but I'm very well aware of all USA Copyright law. I also now how it isn't compatible with most international laws treaties be damned. (I know what is being practiced.)
    Me knows you have no idea of what you are talking about... but saying it anyways, just in case. But that's ok. I've heard worse.

    It's not your fault either (mostly). I always thought we wouldn't be in the mess we are if along with measures to help enforce copyright laws, the governments also made an effort to actually educate and promote awareness to those very same copyright laws.

    The "CTEA" is irrelevant under the given context. I believe that "No Swimming" was first published in 1921. It would have fallen into "Public Domain" before the "cutoff" date.
    Your math skills fail you.

    In other words, if I'm right about the publish date, the "CTEA" is irrelevant as is the life and death of the author.
    No. You are wrong. On all accounts.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 04-14-2010 at 07:53 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #8
    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Me knows you have no idea of what you are talking about... but saying it anyways, just in case. But that's ok. I've heard worse.

    It's not your fault either (mostly). I always thought we wouldn't be in the mess we are if along with measures to help enforce copyright laws, the governments also made an effort to actually educate and promote awareness to those very same copyright laws.



    Your math skills fail you.



    No. You are wrong. On all accounts.
    Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States

  9. #9
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    governments also made an effort to actually educate and promote awareness to those very same copyright laws
    ^_^

    Indeed.

    Stamping out your ignorance should be a priority.

    Soma

  10. #10
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    governments also made an effort to actually educate and promote awareness to those very same copyright laws
    The Term Copyright and the Public Domain in the Otherwise Universe

    "To copyright© a document is the legal equivalent of vicious apes competing for territory (that used to say "viscous apes" because one of the people here does not know the difference between "oily sticky" and "mean"). Even though it's worthless and covered in sticks, mud, and other animals' ........, the biggest smelliest ape always wins it. "
    Last edited by MK27; 04-14-2010 at 08:12 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  11. #11
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    The right to jam the head of any person who duplicates their work into the photocopier.
    w00t!

    Soma -> off to buy a photocopier

  12. #12
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Yeah, "Legal definition" is particularly great right now.

    "Every time you download copyrighted© boo music a kitten is born, whether or not you already have it on a CD, A REAL KITTEN IS BORN!"
    Last edited by MK27; 04-14-2010 at 08:19 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  13. #13
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Yes, it seems I made a fool of myself on this one. Here's my initial source of confusion:
    Norman Rockwell posters from Saturday Evening Post covers - Rights and Restrictions Information (Prints and Photographs Reading Room, Library of Congress)

    It's mostly annoying because I know remember reading about 1923 before. My only consolation is that this resolves my issue of that particular illustration on my website.

    In any case one note:
    And, it would make a difference to some.
    No, In Portugal I along with everybody else are obliged to respect American copyright laws of, obviously, American works.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #14
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Maybe if I show some humility you start actually learning about your own copyright laws and understand these works are still under copyright.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #15
    Master Apprentice phantomotap's Avatar
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    No, In Portugal I [...] of, obviously, American works.
    ^_^

    Relax. That wasn't an assault on Portugal or anyone else. It was just a statement of fact.

    My only consolation is that this resolves my issue of that particular illustration on my website.
    If I'd have been wrong, you'd have only been trying to show me that I was wrong. I see no reason to feel foolish about this.

    Maybe if I show some humility you start actually learning about your own copyright laws and understand these works are still under copyright.
    I have no interest in humility, my own or in anyone else.

    I've lived without pride before. I lived without pride for almost three years. This isn't some bizarre "I'm better than you." riff. It was beyond horrible. It is a pointless existence.

    Soma

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